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laircy
Guest
Isn’t there a parable about a woman who keeps annoying a judge, and Jesus compared it to prayer? And that if even the imperfect judge would give in, how much more would God… 
I don’t think that’s a bad thing, then.
I don’t think that’s a bad thing, then.
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Cartesian
Guest
Yes. The parable of the unjust judge goes in line with what the Pope said.
I personally thought I needed to save a bit my prayers to not ‘bother’ God. Good to learn I was wrong.
I personally thought I needed to save a bit my prayers to not ‘bother’ God. Good to learn I was wrong.
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Yes, Christ also said (Luke, 11, 5-8)Isn’t there a parable about a woman who keeps annoying a judge, and Jesus compared it to prayer? And that if even the imperfect judge would give in, how much more would God…
He also said to them, 'Suppose one of you has a friend and goes to him in the middle of the night to say, “My friend, lend me three loaves, because a friend of mine on his travels has just arrived at my house and I have nothing to offer him;”
and the man answers from inside the house, “Do not bother me. The door is bolted now, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot get up to give it to you.”
I tell you, if the man does not get up and give it to him for friendship’s sake, persistence will make him get up and give his friend all he wants.
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ProVobis
Guest
Is “annoying” the best word the translators could come up with? It seems to have negative connotations in the English.
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Cartesian
Guest
I thought the quotation marks around annoying, would fit this unusual use of the verb, but English is not my native language. 
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ProVobis
Guest
Mine neither. That’s why I question most translations; apparently the article did to an extent as well by putting in the quotation marks around one of the words, though it’s not immediately apparent if the quotes are around the translation or the Pope’s actual words. Most seem to just assume those were his real words, though he speaks very little English.I thought the quotation marks around annoying, would fit this unusual use of the verb, but English is not my native language.
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christofirst
Guest
God must find me very annoying!
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janeway529
Guest
Here’s a summary/a bit of the homily, but remember that although Pope Francis speaks Italian, Argentinean Italian may be a bit different from the Italian spoken in Italy, so it may affect the translation as well.
youtube.com/watch?v=rNJJd5ZCZeg
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ProVobis
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I see your point. In your video it seems to take on a different meaning, if indeed he meant “annoy” in the English sense.
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ishii
Guest
I am pretty sure a few saints find me very annoying.
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PTL
Guest
What about “thy will be done”? Should we keep on annoying God until our requests come true or should we hold an attitude of “but not according to my will but yours”? Should we be forceful and not take the answer of “no”, or should we have the mentality of gladly accepting whatever God gives?
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Domiy
Guest
The point Jesus was making is that prayer (regardless of what it is for), needs to be persistent. There is no limit or allowed quota. You can pray as much as you want, whenever you want, for as long as you want, and should aim to do so as much as possible, whether that be in asking God to help you pass your exam or asking Him to let His will be done.
If you don’t receive something that you asked for from God, then you should keep praying. It will either come eventually, or God’s will will bring something better of it. That is Jesus’ message.
If you don’t receive something that you asked for from God, then you should keep praying. It will either come eventually, or God’s will will bring something better of it. That is Jesus’ message.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Persisting would probably be a more accurate term, since it lacks the negative emotional response of the listener. Catholic theology does not include the concept of a God who is “annoyed” (in the English denotation) by our prayers.
(Didn’t even see post #13 until I looked back just now.)
(Didn’t even see post #13 until I looked back just now.)
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Catolico65
Guest
Here is the original quote from the pope:
“Non so se forse questo suona male, ma pregare è un po’ dare fastidio a Dio, perché ci ascolti.”
Translated there is definitely a negative tone to bothering God, and in fact Francis points this out. Nonetheless, Francis is merely repeating the point Jesus made in his homily that was previously referenced.
In my opinion in not that God sees that we are bothersome but on the contrary this example Jesus used is for our benefit only(of course) so that we should not feel like we are bothering God, which we do of course all the time because of our basic unworthiness. I am never ceased to be amazed at God’s wisdom!
“Non so se forse questo suona male, ma pregare è un po’ dare fastidio a Dio, perché ci ascolti.”
Translated there is definitely a negative tone to bothering God, and in fact Francis points this out. Nonetheless, Francis is merely repeating the point Jesus made in his homily that was previously referenced.
In my opinion in not that God sees that we are bothersome but on the contrary this example Jesus used is for our benefit only(of course) so that we should not feel like we are bothering God, which we do of course all the time because of our basic unworthiness. I am never ceased to be amazed at God’s wisdom!
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
A better English word for this would be “pestering”.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
The person praying may project (onto God) that he or she is “annoying” God, but God is never annoyed. And one has to be careful about using parables to ascribe human qualities to God. (Anthropomorphizing God) Parables were an oral teaching device meant to stir the imagination of the listener, to think in different dimensions about The Kingdom, and to provoke the listener to respond and act. Parables are not allegories. (I won’t go into an extended explanation, including problems with Typology because that would be for a different subforum.)
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Catolico65
Guest
I clearly stated God is not bothered by us and that the purpose of Jesus’ parable was for our benefit to not be discouraged to pray incessantly.The person praying may project (onto God) that he or she is “annoying” God, but God is never annoyed. And one has to be careful about using parables to ascribe human qualities to God. (Anthropomorphizing God) Parables were an oral teaching device meant to stir the imagination of the listener, to think in different dimensions about The Kingdom, and to provoke the listener to respond and act. Parables are not allegories. (I won’t go into an extended explanation, including problems with Typology because that would be for a different subforum.)
Also, regarding Jesus’ parables I believe most Christians who seek God’s will can understand(via the Holy Spirit) them without having a theological background.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
I never asserted the opposite. However, many Catholics (I don’t know about other Christians) misunderstand parables – when, for example, they mistake them for allegories. Some parables are quite straightforward; others are far more complex. Jesus’ first-century audience did not have “a theological background.” Most of them were uneducated. However, unlike the modern western world, those listeners were familiar with the parable form in oral teaching and understood more readily the messages in even the more complex ones, because they were used to that style.Also, regarding Jesus’ parables I believe most Christians who seek God’s will can understand(via the Holy Spirit) them without having a theological background.
For the more complex parables, some of those do actually benefit from some theological understanding. Again, that would be for the contemporary audience (lacking familiarity), not for the ancient Mediterranean audience.
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MarcoPolo
Guest
You ever feel like you’re not annoying enough?
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