Pope Francis Calls for Abolition of Death Penalty

  • Thread starter Thread starter TMC
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
We adapt with the times; but we might remember, if one lived any time before 1920 and was a Roman Catholic, often one would not have had access to what the Holy Father said in informal interviews on a plane and speeches.

Back then, as today, the codified documents of the Magisterium would be examined.
 
Path_Finder said:
We adapt with the times; but we might remember, if one lived any time before 1920 and was a Roman Catholic, often one would not have had access to what the Holy Father said in informal interviews on a plane and speeches.

Back then, as today, the codified documents of the Magisterium would be examined.
Click to expand...
Yes. I was just wondering about the timeline .
And it must have been somehow slow to unify any sort of decision anyway…I was asking myself how was it that they managed to reach everyone and how long it took.
It is interesting to go back in time and try and put pieces together ( for me…).when some phrase like this crops up. I learnt much more about Bellarmine reading ,btw.🙂
And I fell asleep reading invasions…oh my…:eek:
 
TMC said:
The Pope also asked that all Catholic leaders refrain from carrying out any existing death sentences during the current year of mercy.

zenit.org/articles/pope-francis-calls-for-abolition-of-death-penalty/
Click to expand...
As the Pope’s death penalty comments are in contradiction of 2000 years of well known biblical, theological and traditional teachings, few should pay heed.

New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-testament-death-penalty-support.html
 
TMC said:
I think it is getting hard for Catholics to seriously tell themselves that the Church’s position on the death penalty is somehow optional.
Click to expand...
I agree.

As the Pope’s death penalty comments are in contradiction of 2000 years of well known biblical, theological and traditional teachings, few should pay heed.

New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming
http(COLON)//prodpinnc.blogspot(DOT)com/2014/01/new-testament-death-penalty-support.html
 
TMC said:
The Catholic Church’s teaching on the death penalty is clear. The Church teaches that while it is theoretically licit to use the death penalty where no other means to protect society is available, that situation does not arise in today’s society. For that reason, the death penalty as it is used today is against the Church’s teaching. Pope Francis is emphasizing that teaching, but it is not new.
Click to expand...
It is, in fact, quite new, 1997, and filled with well known error after error, as detailed by Catholic scholars:

Catholic Church: Problems with Her Newest Death Penalty Position:
The Catechism & Section 2267
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2015/03/catechism-death-penalty-problems.html
 
dudleysharp said:
I agree.

As the Pope’s death penalty comments are in contradiction of 2000 years of well known biblical, theological and traditional teachings, few should pay heed.

New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming
http(COLON)//prodpinnc.blogspot(DOT)com/2014/01/new-testament-death-penalty-support.html
Click to expand...
Code: 
 Why not pay heed to the last three Popes ?
What in your opinion disqualifies them ?
 
dudleysharp said:
I agree.

As the Pope’s death penalty comments are in contradiction …
Click to expand...
That’s enough. Either you do not know Church teaching, what the Pope has said, or the meaning of the word “contradiction”.

Another word for “teaching” is “doctrine”. The Holy Father is not in contradiction with Church doctrine.
 
graciew said:
Why not pay heed to the last three Popes ?
What in your opinion disqualifies them ?
Click to expand...
FYI - The above person is a death penalty advocate, not a Catholic theologian. You will note these blogs are his.
 
dudleysharp said:
As the Pope’s death penalty comments are in contradiction of 2000 years of well known biblical, theological and traditional teachings, few should pay heed.
Click to expand...
If his comments were intended to be doctrinal then your objection would be valid. If, however, his comments are prudential then there is no conflict. The church has always acknowledged that external circumstances could determine whether the death penalty should not be used. Augustine made just such a plea during his time when he asked that capital punishment not be used against those who had offended against Christians. He did not, however, make that plea universal.*For although we might silently pass over the execution of criminals who may be regarded as brought up for trial not upon an accusation of ours, but by an indictment presented by those to whose vigilance the preservation of the public peace is entrusted, we do not wish to have the sufferings of the servants of God avenged by the infliction of precisely similar injuries in the way of retaliation. *(Letter to Marcellinus)
Ender
 
pnewton said:
FYI - The above person is a death penalty advocate, not a Catholic theologian. You will note these blogs are his.
Click to expand...
Either the arguments are valid or they are not. Being a Catholic theologian is not a prerequisite to being right.

Ender
 
“That all the Doctors and Fathers of the Church–with the exception of Tertullian who died outside the faith-- have taught the essential validity of capital punishment; and that it is the teaching of the Council of Trent that where all the Fathers and Doctors hold one interpretation of Scripture as the proper one, Catholics are to accept it, are two propositions that signify very little in the oppressive culture of mutationist accounts of doctrinal development.” (1)

The only exception “died outside the faith”.

Archbishop Charles Chaput: “Both Scripture and long Christian tradition acknowledge the legitimacy of capital punishment . . . " “The Church cannot repudiate (the death penalty) without repudiating her own identity.” (2)

“repudiating her own identity”

Saint (& Pope) Pius V, “The just use of (executions), far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this (Fifth) Commandment which prohibits murder.” “The Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent” (1566).

“Paramount obedience”

With regard to some Catholic anti death penalty statements, Catholic theologian Steven Long places the arrow:

" . . . (it) is symptomatic of a society that can garner more support to spare the guilty than to save the innocent."

“The crowd still wants Barrabas.” (1).

From the newest Catholic Catechism

CCC 2260 The covenant between God and mankind is interwoven with reminders of God’s gift of human life and man’s murderous violence:

“For your lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning. . . . Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for God made man in his own image.This teaching remains necessary for all time.”

. . . the source for which is the Noahic Covenant, Genesis 9:6, an eternal command, for all peoples and all times, which establishes the sacredness of life as the foundation for death penalty support.

These newest Church teachings on the death penalty, since 1997, have been confirmed as a prudential judgement (3), with which any faithful Catholic may disagree and support more executions (3), as the rational, factual outcome of protecting more innocent lives (4), with a foundation in justice (5).

======
  1. Four Catholic Journals Indulge in (anti death penalty) Doctrinal Solipsism, Steven Long, THOMISTICA, March 5, 2015
    thomistica.net/commentary/2015/3/5/mutationist-views-of-doctrinal-development-and-the-death-penalty
  2. “Archbishop Chaput clarifies Church’s stance on death penalty”, CNA, Catholic News Agency, Oct 18, 2005. Chaput was then archbishop of Denver, now of Philadelphia
  3. Catholic Church: Problems with Her Newest Death Penalty Position:
    The Catechism & Section 2267
    prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2015/03/catechism-death-penalty-problems.html
  4. The Death Penalty: Saving More Innocent Lives
    prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html
  5. The Death Penalty: Mercy, Expiation, Redemption & Salvation
    prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/06/the-death-penalty-mercy-expiation.html
New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-testament-death-penalty-support.html

The Death Penalty: Fair and Just
prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/12/is-death-peanalty-fairjust.html
 
pnewton said:
FYI - The above person is a death penalty advocate, not a Catholic theologian. You will note these blogs are his.
Click to expand...
True. None of which means that I am not correct on everything I stated. for which you are free to offer an rebuttal, to which I will reply.
 
Lormar said:
It’s not, and instead of calling for the abolition of the death penalty, why doesn’t he call for the abolition of abortion?
Click to expand...
There is a pattern, here:

Pope Francis, US Congress & the Death Penalty

Addressing the US Congress, Pope Francis did not give a speech against abortion, which the Catholic Church identifies as the intrinsic evil of murdering the innocent and which no Catholic may support and which occurs a million times a year in the US.

The Pope did give a speech against the death penalty, which the Catholic Church identifies as a moral sanction, within 2000 years of Catholic teaching, with guilty murderers being executed about 38 times per year in the US, and a sanction that any good Catholic may, morally, support, today, and which support may extend to calling for more executions, with the rational, factual conclusion that innocents are more protected when the death penalty is retained and used, with the primary foundation of justice.

With regard to some Catholic anti death penalty statements, Catholic theologian Steven Long places the arrow:

" . . . (it) is symptomatic of a society that can garner more support to spare the guilty than to save the innocent."

“The crowd still wants Barrabas.”.
 
Tbrightson said:
Funny how the Church had no problem with the death penalty for centuries.

Oh and BTW Your Holiness, its “Thou shall not murder” not “Thou Shall Not Kill”…

You’d think the Pope would have a basic understanding of Biblical Hebrew…🤷

Murder is unlawful killing. The death penalty is very lawful.
Click to expand...
Bishops and Catholic scholars must be apoplectic.

The Pope blows basic religion 101, stating that “thou shalt not kill” is equal for the innocent and the guilty, showing no understanding of the commandment, and not recognizing that the most recent catechism makes the obvious distinctions between the innocent and the guilty in this exact context (2258-2267), just as the Church has for 2000 years.

Frightening.
 
I’m gently reminded why I try to stay out of these threads. They always turn into a vicious, savage game of “Let’s Slander the Holy Father”.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top