Pope Francis comments "Arab invasion"

[Cactus]

Does the Pope believe the proverb - give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime?, because someday, the West will run out of fish to feed the poor and then we will all be in the same boat. He/we, must teach these people how to fish!

I think it needs to be considered that the man may already know how to fish, but due to an unjust society, does not have access to the lake. Where people do not have economic freedom, secure property rights, and access to a just legal system then poverty is inevitable.

I think it is a mistake to conflate these Arab refugees as anything other than an existensial threat to Western society. If humanitarian help is the objective, we should strive to help legitimate authority establish a just, stable society. Stirring up civil wars, while it might advance a politically favored warlord, isn’t helping feed people.

 

[Kenny_Kamel]

Maybe someone could explain to me why there are so many refugees coming out of the middle east. And what sort of people are behind it, and for what reason?

I’m sorry, weren’t you just complaining that America destabilized the Middle East by taking out the dictators?

I don’t believe the US was involved in Syria, one might check their history.

First of all the refugee crisis began in 2002 when the US began preparing to invade Iraq. Prior to the invasion beginning over one million Iraqis fled into Syria becoming refugees. Since America DID destabilize the region through their involvement in Iraq, the Syrian conflict has made worse an already bad situation. When two major countries are thrown into utter chaos with no end in sight you have the choice of being a victim or a refugee.

 

[Path_Finder]

First of all the refugee crisis began in 2002 when the US began preparing to invade Iraq. Prior to the invasion beginning over one million Iraqis fled into Syria becoming refugees. Since America DID destabilize the region through their involvement in Iraq, the Syrian conflict has made worse an already bad situation. When two major countries are thrown into utter chaos with no end in sight you have the choice of being a victim or a refugee.

I commend this statement for its great fairness and accuracy not.

Well, if the Iraqis fled to Syria, perhaps you can tell us where some of these refugee camps are if not their name? Strange, I can not recall of hearing of any. There should be a linked story that says so.

We’ve heard of Palestinian refugee camps outside of Damascus, so prey tell, where were these Iraqi refugee camps?

Those are great news scoops, saying things nobody else has.

The region was settled. We are talking about 2015 and 2016, not over TEN YEARS before in 2004 with all due respect.

Assad harbored Saddam Hussein’s brother and allowed Jihadis and Hussein’s old army to plan attacks from Syria and have terrorist camps in Syria. The US almost expanded the war into Syria.

I can back all of this up, it is historic fact.

I have seen nothing of what you are asserting, it sounds more like “blame the US”, Assad has been charged with genocide at the UN by his own people.

Assad and his sponsors in Moscow share plenty of blame.

Also, worth noting, Saddam was convicted of genocide himself; so, I don’t go along with the let dictators kill their own people crowd.

Blame the US for a war they had no part in and on events 10 years prior? Right.

Everyone knows Assad and Iran helped to attack the US effort in Iraq. That is where the blame lies.

 

[Kenny_Kamel]

I commend this statement for its great fairness and accuracy not.

Well, if the Iraqis fled to Syria, perhaps you can tell us where some of these refugee camps are if not their name? Strange, I can not recall of hearing of any. There should be a linked story that says so.

We’ve heard of Palestinian refugee camps outside of Damascus, so prey tell, where were these Iraqi refugee camps?

Those are great news scoops, saying things nobody else has.

The region was settled. We are talking about 2015 and 2016, not over TEN YEARS before in 2004 with all due respect.

Assad harbored Saddam Hussein’s brother and allowed Jihadis and Hussein’s old army to plan attacks from Syria and have terrorist camps in Syria. The US almost expanded the war into Syria.

I can back all of this up, it is historic fact.

I have seen nothing of what you are asserting, it sounds more like “blame the US”, Assad has been charged with genocide at the UN by his own people.

Assad and his sponsors in Moscow share plenty of blame.

Also, worth noting, Saddam was convicted of genocide himself; so, I don’t go along with the let dictators kill their own people crowd.

Blame the US for a war they had no part in and on events 10 years prior? Right.

Everyone knows Assad and Iran helped to attack the US effort in Iraq. That is where the blame lies.

Hi Path Finder, you seem to be sensitive to the point of becoming defensive and offended when someone points out that the US destabilized the region as a result of their involvement in Iraq. I am setting up the historical context based on my military experience in which I tracked things along these lines for the US military. Are you asserting that if one cannot immediately offer proof of named refugee camps inside of Syria that a refugee crisis inside of Syria never existed?

You speak as one who wants America to police the world… Saddam was bad and had to be taken out… the terrorist threats that have developed as a result must be taken out… America never has to take responsibility for the consequences and results of their actions… anyone calling for accountability is just wanting to blame America, etc.

 

[SWolf]

According to the Daily Fail, they were responsible for everything from groping women to causing the re-emergence of the bubonic plague. So vitriolic that the Federation of Poles in Great Britain filed an official complaint about their prejudice. They are not to be trusted.londonprogressivejournal.com/article/view/83/polish-community-hits-back-at-daily-mail

What’s your point? I don’t give credence to the daily mail.

I am saying that

1. Muslim immigrants tend to be way overrepresented in rape/sexual assault statistics. Official government sources have tried their hardest to cover this up.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival

spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/

1. Middle Eastern Mulsim culture is vastly different that British culture, of several orders of magnitude more than that of Polish culture.

Are you denying the two statements above?

 

[Darryl1958]

Prople here find the Daily Mail infinitely more fascinating than the pope, or anything else for that matter.

 

[Path_Finder]

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3476959/The-Pope-says-social-fact-Europe-seeing-Arab-invasion.html

It’s very hard to look at the news coming out of Europe and agree that the “Arab Invasion” is a good thing.

I’d like to hear the Holy Father comment on how Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and other Eastern European nations do not seem to be accepting refugees. That is even some in Italy while other countries, Germany and France seem to be open, UK a bit less.

 

[liturgyluver]

What’s your point? I don’t give credence to the daily mail.

I am saying that

1. Muslim immigrants tend to be way overrepresented in rape/sexual assault statistics. Official government sources have tried their hardest to cover this up.

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jan/13/sex-assaults-sweden-stockholm-music-festival

spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-not-only-germany-that-covers-up-mass-sex-attacks-by-migrant-men-swedens-record-is-shameful/

1. Middle Eastern Mulsim culture is vastly different that British culture, of several orders of magnitude more than that of Polish culture.

Are you denying the two statements above?

Not entirely. Certainly the wave of migration in some places seem to have contributed to the rise in the rate of sexual assaults. The rate in Sweden is now second highest just and has now overtaken the United States.But equally countries with lower migration have higher rape rates and vice versa, and as Pope Francis says we should never tar everyone with the same brush.

As for cultural fit it is far more complex. Those from the New Commonwealth and Pakistan often had a better understanding of British history and cultural norms though that is changing as the children of Polish, Slovakian and Lithuanian’s make their home here.

 

[liturgyluver]

I’d like to hear the Holy Father comment on how Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and other Eastern European nations do not seem to be accepting refugees. That is even some in Italy while other countries, Germany and France seem to be open, UK a bit less.

He has already said that this is a responsibility for all countries. Hungary has actually taken the 2nd largest share, the UK the lowest. bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34131911

 

[SWolf]

Hi Path Finder, you seem to be sensitive to the point of becoming defensive and offended when someone points out that the US destabilized the region as a result of their involvement in Iraq. I am setting up the historical context based on my military experience in which I tracked things along these lines for the US military. Are you asserting that if one cannot immediately offer proof of named refugee camps inside of Syria that a refugee crisis inside of Syria never existed?

You speak as one who wants America to police the world… Saddam was bad and had to be taken out… the terrorist threats that have developed as a result must be taken out… America never has to take responsibility for the consequences and results of their actions… anyone calling for accountability is just wanting to blame America, etc.

Well said.

 

[Path_Finder]

Hi Path Finder, you seem to be sensitive to the point of becoming defensive and offended when someone points out that the US destabilized the region as a result of their involvement in Iraq. I am setting up the historical context based on my military experience in which I tracked things along these lines for the US military. Are you asserting that if one cannot immediately offer proof of named refugee camps inside of Syria that a refugee crisis inside of Syria never existed?

You speak as one who wants America to police the world… Saddam was bad and had to be taken out… the terrorist threats that have developed as a result must be taken out… America never has to take responsibility for the consequences and results of their actions… anyone calling for accountability is just wanting to blame America, etc.

To apply a refugee crisis from 2004 to Europe in 2015/2016 is ridiculous.

Especially with the overwhelming amount of refugees thought to be from Syria, so much so, many stories are just about the “Syrian Refugees”, not Iraq, not Afghanistan but Syrian refugees.

Apologies, no one is offended.

So, okay, let’s blame the US for Syrian refugees in 2016 for the US’s actions in Iraq in 2004.

Excuse me for questioning since the logic is so obvious.

Let’s not forget the 400,000 figure of people killed in the Syrian Civil War since 2011; that must be the US’s fault too.

 

[Path_Finder]

I would love to say the US acts unilaterally in world affairs, but we haven’t done that since WW2. Now, whenever we do something, we must have the blessing of the UN, the EU, NATO, SEATO, and any country that can field a half-a-battalion of soldiers, etc, etc…

So please stop thinking that we are some kind of rogue nation acting on our own. We do the dirty work that the world wants done…

Well said.

 

[Path_Finder]

Syrian Refugees have been polled, they are fleeing Assad; to all of a sudden award the United States responsibility for this to me seems way out of whack. Syrian Refugees are not even mainly fleeing ISIS per polls done.

quora.com/Are-the-Syrian-refugees-fleeing-from-ISIS-or-from-the-Assad-regime

europe.newsweek.com/majority-syrian-refugees-germany-blame-assad-fighting-334315

huffingtonpost.com/the-syria-campaign/what-syrian-refugees-in-europe-want_b_8692520.html

diary.thesyriacampaign.org/what-refugees-think/

So it seems totally unreasonable just to me to just say, hey this is all the United States’s fault.

Read about barrel bombs, read whom is blamed for most of the blood shed in Syria, even more than the dreaded ISIS. Maybe there is a picture of President Bush dropping one of those barrel bombs.

We did not support Assad furthermore.

 

[Path_Finder]

Russia supports a regime, the Syrian government, who is accused of genocide at the United Nations, Russia destablised the area, under the USSR, Russia has cooperated with Syria for over 40 years.

Russia has supplied the regime with weapons, explosives. Human Rights groups assign the number of deaths at over 400,000, round figures and Assad for clearly over 60% of those deaths if not much more.

Let’s see how long Assad hangs on to power, he promised elections in May if the situation is peaceful enough. Russia is not accepting any refugees from what I’ve heard.

Syria is a longtime client of Russia/Soviet Union.

Syria aided Jihadists when it was against the US in Iraq.

 

[Origen52]

I’d like to hear the Holy Father comment on how Poland, Hungary, Slovakia and other Eastern European nations do not seem to be accepting refugees. That is even some in Italy while other countries, Germany and France seem to be open, UK a bit less.

“UK a bit less” is an understatement. There have been no Syrian refugees accepted into the UK. And all of Europe is now throwing cash at Turkey in the hope they will keep the 2 million plus refugees in that country safely away from Europe.

Interesting that the US, which started this mess with their support of “Arab Spring”, has also not taken in any refugees, including Christians who are being systematically slaughtered in the Middle East.

 

[gracepoole]

I am sure he’s talking about the Arabs that aren’t extemists,

You mean the majority?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

This pains me, sadly.

He’s infinitely more holy than me, but try telling that to the women that have to stay inside at night.

 

[Theo520]

Respected Think-Tank: Border Fences Much Cheaper Than Mass Migration
**
One of Germany’s best known and respected think tanks has found the five billion euro cost of closing Europe’s borders is just a “fraction” of the cost associated with leaving them open and experiencing continued mass migration. **

The Munich-based Institute for Economic Research (Ifo) has released new figures quantifying what exactly the damage to the German and European economies would be, and it is significantly lower than previous estimates. Taking into consideration the inconvenience and delays to trade introduced by taking action at Europe’s borders to prevent illegal migrant incursion, the Ifo put the figure at €5 billion a year.

Although a significant amount of money, report author Gabriel Felbermayr said “this cost represents only a fraction of the burden which would be incurred by continuing unregulated mass migration”. By way of comparison the cost of reception and initial care of refugees was estimated to hit €20 billion a year for just Germany alone, reports Die Welt.

This figure excludes the costs associated with migrant crime and other societal costs, and does nothing to even consider the long term costs of mass migration. A recent report from a Stockholm University academic into the life-long costs of mass migration found just the 2015 arrivals in Sweden would cost around 600 billion Swedish crowns, around £50 billion, a figure professor Jan Tullberg called “conservative”.

The cost was estimated to be roughly the same as 14 years worth of Swedish defence budgets.
. . .

 

[gracepoole]

Respected Think-Tank: Border Fences Much Cheaper Than Mass Migration
**
One of Germany’s best known and respected think tanks has found the five billion euro cost of closing Europe’s borders is just a “fraction” of the cost associated with leaving them open and experiencing continued mass migration. **

The Munich-based Institute for Economic Research (Ifo) has released new figures quantifying what exactly the damage to the German and European economies would be, and it is significantly lower than previous estimates. Taking into consideration the inconvenience and delays to trade introduced by taking action at Europe’s borders to prevent illegal migrant incursion, the Ifo put the figure at €5 billion a year.

Although a significant amount of money, report author Gabriel Felbermayr said “this cost represents only a fraction of the burden which would be incurred by continuing unregulated mass migration”. By way of comparison the cost of reception and initial care of refugees was estimated to hit €20 billion a year for just Germany alone, reports Die Welt.

This figure excludes the costs associated with migrant crime and other societal costs, and does nothing to even consider the long term costs of mass migration. A recent report from a Stockholm University academic into the life-long costs of mass migration found just the 2015 arrivals in Sweden would cost around 600 billion Swedish crowns, around £50 billion, a figure professor Jan Tullberg called “conservative”.

The cost was estimated to be roughly the same as 14 years worth of Swedish defence budgets.
. . .

One has to wonder if it would’ve been far cheaper to effectively address the threat posed by ISIS in the first place.

 

[Ridgerunner]

One has to wonder if it would’ve been far cheaper to effectively address the threat posed by ISIS in the first place.

Almost without a doubt. But Obama declared 'victory" in Iraq and left it to exactly what the experts, including his own CIA chief said would happen. At least it would have kept them out of Iraq if he hadn’t. The DIA told Obama it would take three brigades to keep them out, (it’s all mountains and desert with very few roads in between) but it didn’t matter to him.

ISIS was in Syria and we weren’t engaging them there at the time, and that’s true. But at minimum, we could have kept them from the oil wealth and other wealth of Iraq, and that’s also true.

And with a substantial military force in Iraq, we could have swept ISIS out of Syria. And we could have had Arab allies in doing it. Even Turkey said it would intervene if we would keep Assad’s air force from killing Turkish troops. We wouldn’t. Putin bided his time to see if we would do it. When he saw we would do nothing, he went in to kill every non-ISIS rebel in the country.

And here we are. Just exactly where our own military and intelligence people said we would be.