Pope Francis: "Corruption is a greater evil than sin."

[Joe_5859]

To say that sin is not the worst evil there is just is not true and goes against Church teaching – no matter who says it. I will rephrase what I said and say that what Francis said is NOT true at all. Friend, calling an untruth an untruth IS charity, so I hope that you will not persecute me for saying that what Francis uttered is very untrue. Calling an untruth the truth or downplaying an untruth is NOT charity – it is what Modernists do all the time and the way that souls get destroyed by them. I am through here on this thread now that I have pointed out Francis’ error, in charity ,for the sake of those Catholics who are not aware of the Church’s true teaching. God bless you.

What is more likely? That the pope spoke an untruth or that you may have misinterpreted what he was saying?

He is our Holy Father. We should give him the benefit of the doubt and always read his words in light of Catholic teaching. If it initially strikes you as wrong, rather than rushing to point out the error (to the scandal of all readers of the forum), perhaps you might take a step back and see if there is another way to look at it.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

To say that sin is not the worst evil there is just is not true and goes against Church teaching – no matter who says it. I will rephrase what I said and say that what Francis said is NOT true at all. Friend, calling an untruth an untruth IS charity, so I hope that you will not persecute me for saying that what Francis uttered is very untrue. Calling an untruth the truth or downplaying an untruth is NOT charity – it is what Modernists do all the time and the way that souls get destroyed by them. I am through here on this thread now that I have pointed out Francis’ error, in charity ,for the sake of those Catholics who are not aware of the Church’s true teaching. God bless you.

A personal sin is not as bad as a sin that corrupts others.

I would say people in society today who condone sexual sins and seek to get others to accept them and live in sin, are much worse than a person who sexually sins and then feels remorse.

These corrupted people don’t even think they are sinning, but they are dragging others down into their depravity. I think that is what Pope Francis is trying to point out.

Of course this could apply to other types of sins too.

 

[Joe_5859]

In looking at some of the quotes again (from the Vatican News article about the address), I think on the individual level, the word to use in place of corruption would be “vice”. This, too, makes sense. When we deliberately sin without remorse so much that we corrupt our souls, we are in a much worse place than if we are struggling with sin, but making efforts at improvement.

The official English translation of the speech will be here on the Vatican website:

w2.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2014/october/index.html

It’s the October 23rd address to the delegates of the International Association of Penal Law. Typically, the English translation of papal speeches and addresses will go up on the Vatican website about a week later. So perhaps by this Thursday or Friday, you will be able to read the whole thing in context, which may help it make more sense to you.

 

[Slaney]

Having read an article to which I now don’t have the time to search for was, Pope Francis means that some are so corrupt that they don’t even know that they are in sin. It’s like Mortal sin, 3 conditions must be met to make one. People who have certain sin pointed out to them know it’s a sin when they do it. (no excuse for ignorance) Corrupt people don’t have full knowledge that it’s a mortal sin, or even a sin per se.

 

[graciew]

Having read an article to which I now don’t have the time to search for was, Pope Francis means that some are so corrupt that they don’t even know that they are in sin. Iot’s like Mortal sin, 3 conditions must be met to make one. People who have certain sin pointed out to them know it’s a sin when they do it. (no excuse for ignorance) Corrupt people don’t have full knowledge that it’s a mortal sin, or even a sin per se.

Corrupt people are in full knowlegde of their evil ways but have become autonomous of God. It is a process , it starts in the heart,slowly , until it is " rotten" . They are the opposite of the saints and different from sinners cause they do not care any more.
They live among us but are not one of us .They are dangerous , they “institutionalize” sin and get to corrupt society. Experts in " make up", they will never be responsible of anything and will accuse others of their own crimes and fraud. Saintlike faces but deliberately manipulating everything so they benefit themselves. They do not have friends but accomplices . Money , power , luxury at the expense of anything and anybody.
As a bishop he said Sinners , yes. Corrupt , no.

 

[RosslynV]

To say that sin is not the worst evil there is just is not true and goes against Church teaching – no matter who says it. I will rephrase what I said and say that what Francis said is NOT true at all. Friend, calling an untruth an untruth IS charity, so I hope that you will not persecute me for saying that what Francis uttered is very untrue. Calling an untruth the truth or downplaying an untruth is NOT charity – it is what Modernists do all the time and the way that souls get destroyed by them. I am through here on this thread now that I have pointed out Francis’ error, in charity ,for the sake of those Catholics who are not aware of the Church’s true teaching. God bless you.

Ditto.

Corruption is not one of the four sins that cry out to Heaven.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I have often wondered about people who sin but don’t see it as sin. To me that is just atheism. Is that what he is talking about? Or are these practicing Catholics who are hardened to sin? I would have to say that, what 70% percent of people in society don’t admit sin to be sin? That’s a lot of people. I mean most people would say that murder was sin, but how many would say that of abortion? And I agree, not being able to conceive of sin is horrific. I always think of it as being dead inside. To feel remorse ironically is a great blessing; it is an affirmation of the health of your conscience and your soul.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I have often wondered about people who sin but don’t see it as sin. To me that is just atheism. Is that what he is talking about? Or are these practicing Catholics who are hardened to sin? I would have to say that, what 70% percent of people in society don’t admit sin to be sin? That’s a lot of people. I mean most people would say that murder was sin, but how many would say that of abortion? And I agree, not being able to conceive of sin is horrific. I always think of it as being dead inside. To feel remorse ironically is a great blessing; it is an affirmation of the health of your conscience and your soul.

Yes I think you have it exactly.

 

[graciew]

I have often wondered about people who sin but don’t see it as sin. To me that is just atheism. Is that what he is talking about? Or are these practicing Catholics who are hardened to sin? I would have to say that, what 70% percent of people in society don’t admit sin to be sin? That’s a lot of people. I mean most people would say that murder was sin, but how many would say that of abortion? And I agree, not being able to conceive of sin is horrific. I always think of it as being dead inside. To feel remorse ironically is a great blessing; it is an affirmation of the health of your conscience and your soul.

For me there is corrupt people,who have slowly denied sin after sin,until sin has become structural. I would say they don’t seek any more. Nobody is born corrupt. They have become autonomous of God.

I would also say that corruption has " institutionalized" practices that many of us sinners don’t see as sin ,but at least seeking for awareness and hardheaded often times. Not the obvious for each of us, what is obviously wrong is wrong ,but areas each of us see ok,but if with God’s help we may learn they are wrong.
For instance ,we dont steal. Ok we do not put a hand into anybody 's pocket .Yet , we may be stealing in a socially " correct" form.Do you understand what I mean ? That is a corrupt practice we ,sinners , should be careful with.

And then there are the saints.The opposite of the corrupted.

This is how I see it and I may be wrong.

 

[ProVobis]

Maybe decadence of our moral values would be a better translation. Corruption is too vague.

 

[graciew]

Maybe decadence of our moral values would be a better translation. Corruptsion is too vague.

Yes , Pro Nobis.
And the word corruption is very meaningful.for us in other parts of the world. Unfortunately.

 

[choliks]

Corruption is the act of leading others to sin.

You know what happens if you place a rotten apple in a basket filled with fresh ones.

What happened to the serpent (corruptor) at the garden of eden?

What is greater: the sin or the act of the great corruptor, Satan?

 

[graciew]

Corruption is the act of leading others to sin.

You know what happens if you place a rotten apple in a basket filled with fresh ones.

What happened to the serpent (corruptor) at the garden of eden?

What is greater: the sin or the act of the great corruptor, Satan?

I like your "apple " analogy,Choliks.

In defense of the apple, it is a natural process…

I do not get what you mean by the sin and the act of the corruptor. I know what you are talking about but if you could explain it a little further…Thanks.

 

[choliks]

I like your "apple " analogy,Choliks.

In defense of the apple, it is a natural process…

I do not get what you mean by the sin and the act of the corruptor. I know what you are talking about but if you could explain it a little further…Thanks.

Indeed, it is a natural process. But it is still a basket filled with rotten, corrupt apples; never to be made fresh again.

I think there lies the difference between corruption and sin. Sin can be forgiven and absolved, and we can be made “fresh” and new again (through the Sacrament of Penance), while corruption is irreversible (blaspheming the Holy Spirit?). And even if we stop the process of corruption, the damage would still be evident.

Here, I see the parallelism: when the devil tempted and eventually corrupted Adam and Eve. The corruption resulted in our first parent’s personal sin, with effects still seen today.

I hope I made sense. It’s hard to think straight with a migraine.

 

[saintjohnxxiii]

Here is a Catholic news source:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301874.htm

In it the Pope is saying

Corruption is worse than any sin because it hardens the heart against feeling shame or guilt and hearing God’s call for conversion, Pope Francis said.

The key word is bolded. To say that corruption is worse than any sin is heck of a lot different than Corruption is worse than sin. As Pope he is certainly qualified to comment on which sins are more worse than others.

Re the link in the OP, Breitbart is not Catholic and this is another perfect example of why any Catholic news thread should be required to source a CATHOLIC news site.

 

[graciew]

Indeed, it is a natural process. But it is still a basket filled with rotten, corrupt apples; never to be made fresh again.

I think there lies the difference between corruption and sin. Sin can be forgiven and absolved, and we can be made “fresh” and new again (through the Sacrament of Penance), while corruption is irreversible (blaspheming the Holy Spirit?). And even if we stop the process of corruption, the damage would still be evident.

Here, I see the parallelism: when the devil tempted and eventually corrupted Adam and Eve. The corruption resulted in our first parent’s personal sin, with effects still seen today.

I hope I made sense. It’s hard to think straight with a migraine.

Yes ,it does make sense and thank.you.
Hope your migraine is better now…
Thank you !

 

[graciew]

Here is a Catholic news source:

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1301874.htm

In it the Pope is saying

The key word is bolded. To say that corruption is worse than any sin is heck of a lot different than Corruption is worse than sin. As Pope he is certainly qualified to comment on which sins are more worse than others.

Re the link in the OP, Breitbart is not Catholic and this is another perfect example of why any Catholic news thread should be required to source a CATHOLIC news site.

Right , SaintJohn. It is better to refer to the original.
These headlines are driving us crazy !
Thank you !