Pope Francis criticises ‘fundamentalist’ Catholics

[SWolf]

I too have yet to meet this type. I see it on tv and in the movies but I’ve never come across them in real life thank goodness. Maybe I’m just too young to remember the “bad old days” of which the pope talks about.

I think I’ve met a total of two people who were of this type.

The number of Catholics I have met who think sex outside of marriage, contraception, consistently missing mass, and think euthanasia is okay? In the hundreds.

Sort of focusing on the speck in the eyes of the faithful while ignoring the beam.

 

[mikekle]

Fundamentalism typically denys Mercy, forgiveness, etc. It is typically based on personal/heretical understanding of scripture, doctrine, dogma, etc.

Fundamentalism is also typically a kind of idolatry where the individual or group places too much focus on one part of the religion and misconstrues or ignores the rest of the teachings.

Fundamentalism leads to Islamic Terrorists, Westboro Baptist Church, etc.

Fundamentalism often condones or commits violence and/or hateful language/acts against non-believers.

A few examples of potential Catholic Fundamentalists would be:
– Catholics who hate all Protestant and/or Orthodox Christians
– Catholics who claim Vatican II is not a valid council
– Catholics who claim all non-Catholics are automatically going to Hell
– Catholics who claim all baptised Catholics are automatically going to Heaven
– Catholics who refuse to socially interact or allow their children to interact with non-Catholics
– Catholics who believe Jews should be eliminated
– Catholics who believe the Holocaust is a lie.

Fundamentalism also leads some to take weird or nonsensical positions as well. Like people who refuse legitimate medical treatments out of religious objections to all medicine.

In regards to the Catholic Church, any one who is truly faithful to the Church is NOT a “fundamentalist”

I pray this is helpful.

God Bless

So, if this is true, then all the old testament Israelis were fundamentalists…right? After all, they were following very strict laws, set in place by God at the time, which did include killing others, violence, etc.

Lets say you were living at that time, but you were one of those people the Israelis were supposed to kill…how would you personally feel about God, the Catholic faith?

 

[friardchips]

So, if this is true, then all the old testament Israelis were fundamentalists…right? After all, they were following very strict laws, set in place by God at the time, which did include killing others, violence, etc.

Lets say you were living at that time, but you were one of those people the Israelis were supposed to kill…how would you personally feel about God, the Catholic faith?

Well, we can’t be too judgemental, after all, we have the gift of being able to see the truth from a Christological viewpoint. And that goes for interpretation also. The Jews were a persecuted peoples, not the tormentors, as a rule. All people’s, tribes etc…were more ruthless back then, a bit more gruffly, especially without the gift of insight we have, following the Resurrection. Considering the troubles Jews have pretty much always, at certain periods anyway, experienced, then I’d say it was more a case of faith in being led out of slavery as opposed to leading others into it.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

As to your question I believe my charity is intact, not that such a question should have been asked by a random internet stranger. I did not judge anyone. However, I do believe the phrase does not apply and cannot apply. You **did **ask.

Judging particular people is never acceptable. Judging actions is better, but can be dicey if we refer to a particular action without knowing a whole lot. Judging words, that is arguments, debate, etc., that is acceptable.

“acceptable”? I follow Sacred Scriptures and the Canon Laws that were made based on the truth which is the Word of God. Anything else that isn’t based on these fundamental principles, I’ll deem unacceptable. The Bible hasn’t anything “objectionable” in it because as a Catholic I accept and follow all teachings. These should be used to “judge” actions. Actually Pope Francis said we should not judge which is also a truth and he went on to confirm church teaching.

“Whole lot”? It doesn’t matter about context, Sins are Sins and the Truth is the Truth.

Love is willing the good of the other and that includes pointing out the truth.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

Fundamentalism typically denys Mercy, forgiveness, etc. It is typically based on personal/heretical understanding of scripture, doctrine, dogma, etc.

Fundamentalism is also typically a kind of idolatry where the individual or group places too much focus on one part of the religion and misconstrues or ignores the rest of the teachings.

Fundamentalism leads to Islamic Terrorists, Westboro Baptist Church, etc.

Fundamentalism often condones or commits violence and/or hateful language/acts against non-believers.

A few examples of potential Catholic Fundamentalists would be:
– Catholics who hate all Protestant and/or Orthodox Christians
– Catholics who claim Vatican II is not a valid council
– Catholics who claim all non-Catholics are automatically going to Hell
– Catholics who claim all baptised Catholics are automatically going to Heaven
– Catholics who refuse to socially interact or allow their children to interact with non-Catholics
– Catholics who believe Jews should be eliminated
– Catholics who believe the Holocaust is a lie.

Fundamentalism also leads some to take weird or nonsensical positions as well. Like people who refuse legitimate medical treatments out of religious objections to all medicine.

In regards to the Catholic Church, any one who is truly faithful to the Church is NOT a “fundamentalist”

I pray this is helpful.

God Bless

I’ve met a handful in my parish and nearby parish who believe the below:

All non-Catholics are going to Hell except those baptised Orthodox
All baptised Catholics are automatically going to Heaven provided they attend Mass and confession weekly.
Muslims do not worship the same God as Catholics.

 

[Origen52]

I think again there is a problem with his words being lost in translation.

As a native Italian speaker, I can assure you that the problem is not in the translation. I think his Holiness often fails to explain and clarify what he says.

 

[gilliam]

As a native Italian speaker, I can assure you that the problem is not in the translation. I think his Holiness often fails to explain and clarify what he says.

Or people don’t like to hear the truth he speaks.

 

[pnewton]

Or people don’t like to hear the truth he speaks.

I think this happens more often in our modern era. For all the rants I read that confuse modernity with modernism, few recognize that lay opinionated opposition to the Holy Father is itself a rather modern phenomena.

 

[Ridgerunner]

A few examples of potential Catholic Fundamentalists would be:
– Catholics who hate all Protestant and/or Orthodox Christians
– Catholics who claim Vatican II is not a valid council
– Catholics who claim all non-Catholics are automatically going to Hell
– Catholics who claim all baptised Catholics are automatically going to Heaven
– Catholics who refuse to socially interact or allow their children to interact with non-Catholics
– Catholics who believe Jews should be eliminated
– Catholics who believe the Holocaust is a lie.

I don’t think I have ever known a Catholic who believes the above, with one exception. The SSPX folks do believe Vatican II was fatally flawed.

 

[Seamus_L]

It would be nice to know at least who some of the more prominent people among this many are.

 

[friardchips]

As a native Italian speaker, I can assure you that the problem is not in the translation. I think his Holiness often fails to explain and clarify what he says.

Maybe not in linguistics but certainly in terms of interpretation - Our Lord used, as another poster said already, ways of putting the question back onto those who sought to catch him out. In this case, the journalists. In terms of fundamentalism, it is very clear, because Pope Francis speaks with the message of love, and I can think of one such example: The Good Samaritan. The “fundamentalists” would be those who, although on their way to doing important things, ignore the opportunity to love; on the way from A to C, they don’t stop at B.

 

[ProVobis]

It would be nice to know at least who some of the more prominent people among this many are.

Good point. We can’t seem to get out of our labeling and abstracting culture.

 

[1crazybusydad]

Again he said,** “That’s how it is. Fundamentalism is a sickness that exists in all religions. We Catholics have some, not just some, so many, who believe they have the absolute truth and they move forward with calumnies, with defamation and they hurt (people), they hurt”**

People are hanging on to the wrong part of the quote.

I don’t believe the problem is believing in absolute truth as taught by the Catholic Church. The problem is in believing YOU have the absolute truth and then acting upon it in a sinful manner - calumnies, defamation, etc.

The Pope is not saying there is anything wrong with a faithful Catholic who believes in the absolute truth from the Catholic Church and puts it into action.

 

[Thomas_White]

It would be nice to know at least who some of the more prominent people among this many are.

That religious fundamentalism can become evil is plain and clear in daily media reports from the Middle East. When fundamentalism becomes an ideology, it is potentially dangerous. This is occassionaly seen among U.S. Christians in isolated instances, but this level of extremism has certainly not occurred in any general way among U.S. Catholics. The problem here is more one of legalism, I believe, where a person develops a righteous attitude and becomes judgmental of others as a result. This can be fundamentalism but is of a different sort, and pointing fingers at prominent people would just be more of the same.

 

[commenter]

As a native Italian speaker, I can assure you that the problem is not in the translation. I think his Holiness often fails to explain and clarify what he says.

Keep in mind many of his controversial remarks are made in response to a question, off the cuff, while on a plane. If different questions had been asked, in a different way, he may have responded differently. This is not an encyclical. This is his personal style.

Is it good or bad for him to do this? Probably both. He is trying to make a connection to that individual reporter, to get Catholic ideas considered by people who don’t think of Catholicism. I suspect sometimes he succeeds.

 

[Darryl1958]

Labelling someone a fundamentalist is too broad of a brush.
Fundamentals of Christianity such as the Magesterium, the resurrection of the body, the final judgement, and the essential goodness of Catholic moral teaching are beyond criticism, I would think.
The most common usage of the word fundamentalism is in regard to the Christian movement that rejects modernism and regards Biblical inerrancy as the essential fundamental of the faith. Would a Catholic fundamentalist therefore be a Catholic who believes that Magisterial teaching of the Bible is inerrant? Is that what it is that is up for criticism?

I would compare my own faith in the Magesterium and its claims of absolute truth on such things as the ever-virginity of Mary, and papal infallibility as like a mustard seed. Nevertheless, I certainly don’t find those who have a deeper faith than I do in that inerrancy of the Magesterium, and who have a strong faith the absolute truth of the teachings of the Church as particularly harmful, or dangerous to me.

Catholicism is no longer Torquemada’s Church. For the most part, this comes off as yesterday’s battle against fundamentalism in Catholicism Catholics are perfectly willing and capable of living in a pluralistic world.

 

[phil19034]

So, if this is true, then all the old testament Israelis were fundamentalists…right? After all, they were following very strict laws, set in place by God at the time, which did include killing others, violence, etc.

Lets say you were living at that time, but you were one of those people the Israelis were supposed to kill…how would you personally feel about God, the Catholic faith?

I’m afraid that you totally misunderstood my post. How can you infer that Old Testament Israelis were fundamentalists from my post? Where did I say anything about following strict law set in place by God?

I’m talking about INDIVIDUALS and subgroups who do not follow the teachings of their religion and who self-interpret.

Sola Scriptura.

All fundamentalist practice a form of Sola Scriptura, whether it’s based on the Bible, Koran, doctrine, discipline, rules, etc. They misinterpret the message and act without mercy.

NOTE: wars and the death penalty can be merciful – so I think you totally misunderstood my post.

God Bless

 

[phil19034]

People are hanging on to the wrong part of the quote.

I don’t believe the problem is believing in absolute truth as taught by the Catholic Church. The problem is in believing YOU have the absolute truth and then acting upon it in a sinful manner - calumnies, defamation, etc.

The Pope is not saying there is anything wrong with a faithful Catholic who believes in the absolute truth from the Catholic Church and puts it into action.

very true

 

[LongingSoul]

Labelling someone a fundamentalist is too broad of a brush.
Fundamentals of Christianity such as the Magesterium, the resurrection of the body, the final judgement, and the essential goodness of Catholic moral teaching are beyond criticism, I would think.
The most common usage of the word fundamentalism is in regard to the Christian movement that rejects modernism and regards Biblical inerrancy as the essential fundamental of the faith. Would a Catholic fundamentalist therefore be a Catholic who believes that Magisterial teaching of the Bible is inerrant? Is that what it is that is up for criticism?

I would compare my own faith in the Magesterium and its claims of absolute truth on such things as the ever-virginity of Mary, and papal infallibility as like a mustard seed. Nevertheless, I certainly don’t find those who have a deeper faith than I do in that inerrancy of the Magesterium, and who have a strong faith the absolute truth of the teachings of the Church as particularly harmful, or dangerous to me.

Catholicism is no longer Torquemada’s Church. For the most part, this comes off as yesterday’s battle against fundamentalism in Catholicism Catholics are perfectly willing and capable of living in a pluralistic world.

Yet there is still a kind of attitude in some Catholics that objects to a practical unity among Christians. One of the main goals of Vatican II was to bring the reformed Churchs back together in Christ through theological dialogue. There are still so many that reject Christian unity. They hate the notion of ecumenism and reject any reforms aimed at removing divisions, as departures from the true faith.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I don’t believe the problem is believing in absolute truth as taught by the Catholic Church. The problem is in believing YOU have the absolute truth and then acting upon it in a sinful manner - calumnies, defamation, etc.

Yep. I wonder if those who are sure they know who are the fundamentalists are the fundamentalists? (whatever path they walk - inside or out of the Church - if you catch my drift…)