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McCall1981
Guest
Can anyone explain to me what this homily is saying? He said some similar things a week or two ago, and I think I must be misunderstanding. On the surface it looks like he’s saying we can assert our will over God’s through prayer, and challenge God to answer our prayers. I know this cant be what he’s saying, so can anyone explain this to me?
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simple_soul
Guest
I don’t beleive that is what he is saying.
To me it seems he is just saying we should mean it and really believe that God can preform miracles when we pray asking for help from God instead of just going throuh the motions kind of half heartedly believing. All of us struggle with some doubts to some degree or another and that we should ask God to help is to overcome those doubts.
Not sure what you are getting that is making you think he is saying we can change the will of God. But maybe he is trying to point out that sometimes we beleive we deserve what we are suffering from and do not have faith enough in God that if it is His will He will cure us and forgive us if we beleive He is that merciful and really does love us that much.
Not sure if that helps at all but in case it does I thought I would share.
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McCall1981
Guest
Thanks, that does help a bit. I guess I just have a hard time grasping what he’s getting at here.
This is the other homily I referred to (from 5/3):
"Jesus - to put it in stronger terms - challenges us to prayer and says this:’ Whatever you ask in my name, I will do so that the Father may be glorified in the Son '. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it … But this is really powerful! We must have the courage to go to Jesus and ask him: ‘But you said this, do it! Make the faith grow, make evangelization move forward, help me to solve this problem… Do we have this courage in prayer? Or do we pray a little, when we can, spending a bit’ of time in prayer? But that courage, that parresia even in prayer … ".
The Pope recalled how we read in the Bible that Abraham and Moses have the courage to “negotiate with the Lord.” A courage “in favor of others, in favor of the Church” which we also need today"
…
“In all these things, but this is not good for the Church: the Church must be courageous! We all have to be courageous in prayer, in challenging Jesus!”.
I guess I just don’t really understand the “challange Jesus” and “negotiate with the Lord” parts. Again, I’m sure he’s not actually saying this, it just looks to me like he’s saying to pit our will against God. Since I’m sure I’m misreading his point, I’'m just trying to figure it out better.
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simple_soul
Guest
I do not believe I have the knowledge or now how to explain this one any further except that it is my understanding that it is in this struggle with God that we are transformed.
I believe there was is a general audience of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI on his catechists on prayer where he talks about Job and how he fought with God and how it transforms him even though he is wounded and loses. I tried to find it at the Holy See web site but to no avail. If you can find it I believe it may help you understand better what Pope Francis may be saying. If I find it I will post it.
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McCall1981
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Thanks! I’ll look for it
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AndyP2010
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McCall1981
See
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 18:23-26[/BIBLEDRB]
it continues on to verse 32
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 18:32[/BIBLEDRB]
also
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 7:26-29[/BIBLEDRB]
and
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 18:1-8[/BIBLEDRB]
See
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 18:23-26[/BIBLEDRB]
it continues on to verse 32
[BIBLEDRB]Genesis 18:32[/BIBLEDRB]
also
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 7:26-29[/BIBLEDRB]
and
[BIBLEDRB]Luke 18:1-8[/BIBLEDRB]
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Santi2
Guest
The Holy Father’s Q & A at the Pentecost Vigil with worldwide lay movements is halfway through this clip from Vatican TV.
radiovaticana.va/player/index_fb.asp?language=it&tic=VA_L5LZOGC5
radiovaticana.va/player/index_fb.asp?language=it&tic=VA_L5LZOGC5
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AndyP2010
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AndyP2010
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Homily 05/22/13
Reading : Sirach 4 : 11-19
Gospel: Mark 9 : 38-40
Reading : Sirach 4 : 11-19
Gospel: Mark 9 : 38-40
I can’t tell you how much I loved reading this one today. Just reading it made me feel happy, I can’t tell you why. A great meditation off of 3 verses from the Gospel of Mark.
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Lucky7
Guest
Funny, I had a very different feeling.
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Lormar
Guest
Lucky, so did I.
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Indyann
Guest
Why? Christ did die to redeem all people. It is up to each to accept or reject that redemption.Lucky, so did I.
I think that the command to do good is written on each one’s heart. As in love your neighbor as yourself.
Not everyone is given the gift of faith in Christ, but can still do good.
I think the Pope is saying we will meet others without faith in the good they are doing,
I don’t think he is saying that everyone will be saved. I think he is saying that those without faith can still do good.
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AndyP2010
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Indyann
Thank you
Thank you
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Indyann
Guest
Code:
Thank YOU for posting these homilies, so we can try to understand.
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Lucky7
Guest
It’s the same issue I have been harping on …the lack of clarity in our Church. Don’t you think that there are many people (Catholics and non-Catholics alike) who will read this/hear about this homily and think there is no reason to be Catholic? Many of us know the difference between redemption and salvation, but I’m going to guess that average Joe does not and will translate the comment about redeeming us all as we are all on equal footing. We are all saved by Christ…even atheists.
Also, when he mentions we’ll meet each other “there”, he isn’t clear what he means by “there”. Where? Heaven? Probably not what he meant, but what’s keeping others from thinking that?
You say you don’t “think” he is saying that everyone is saved. My point is there should be no room for thinking. It should be clear.
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Lucky7
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I’m glad I’m not the only one. I keep looking (and hoping and praying) for clarity in these sorts of matters.Lucky, so did I.
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McCall1981
Guest
Totally agree, this one made me sad. And I’ve been trying very hard to remain positive on these kinds of things
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AndyP2010
Guest
One.
I don’t think he could be anymore clear.
Two.
Any Catholic who thinks that your going to get by without thinking is fooling themselves. There are a lot of churches that would love to have you re-site the sinners prayer declare you “once saved always saved” and allow you to spend your christian life not thinking much of anything. I don’t think you want, otherwise you wouldn’t be here.
Three.
This is where Brother Jay would remind you that the Pope is a Jesuit and inform you that asking a Jesuit not to ask you to think, would be like asking him not to breathe.
A quick parable
There was once a man who lived his life doing what he felt was good. As he walked through the gates of hell the first thing he said was ‘I never thought I would end up here.’
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McCall1981
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I don’t mean to put words in Lucky7’s mouth, but I think the issue here is that, while what he said is true (Christ DID die to redeem everyone), the message that many people will take away from this homily is that everyone is saved automatically and Catholics/Atheists are essentially “the same”. That’s how the homily will be presented, and that’s what a lot of people are going to take away from it, which is problematic. This kind of problem could be taken care of if the wording of the homily was clear and direct on the point that while Christ died for all, it is imperative that people turn to Christ becasue that is the only way they can be saved.
I’m not sure of what you mean by the “parable” you posted, but I think it really serves the point I’m making here. Many people will look at a homily like this and think “I’m saved automatically, what I do or believe doesn’t matter, we’re all the same, so I’ll do whatever I feel is good”. This is what the “church of nice” is, that our culture is falling into now, and it won’t get us salvation.
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