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estesbob
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My feelings are we shouldn’t label Catholics as right or Left
Pope Francis denounces ‘trickle-down’ economic theories in critique of inequality
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m134e5
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It is obvious to you, but not to everyone. Thankfully for me, my faith is formed well enough that I know what the Church teaches and I intend to live it and proclaim it in communion with the Holy Father, despite the fact that some say he’s saying things he’s not really saying. There are many people who aren’t formed well enough in their faith though (and I would have been among them ten years ago), and I am concerned for them.
Who are “the poor” anyway? I think the Catholic understanding and the secular American social understanding of it are different. I mentioned in another post that at one time, I made little more than minimum wage, yet during that time I bought good quality food, bought nice things for myself and others on occasion, and even took a vacation halfway across the country. I did not think of myself as poor, and no one who really knew me thought of me that way either. “The poor” in this country frequently got more money than me, yet I neither lived above my means nor did I live like I was poor. All this talk about care for “the poor” is fine if we’re talking about those who are truly poor. It is virtuous to care for those who are truly poor, but it is neither virtuous nor intelligent to finance those who are not.
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Michael_Mayo
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III. FROM THE HEART OF THE GOSPEL
- If we attempt to put all things in a missionary key, this will also affect the way we communicate the message. In today’s world of instant communication and occasionally biased media coverage, the message we preach runs a greater risk of being distorted or reduced to some of its secondary aspects. In this way certain issues which are part of the Church’s moral teaching are taken out of the context which gives them their meaning. The biggest problem is when the message we preach then seems identified with those secondary aspects which, important as they are, do not in and of themselves convey the heart of Christ’s message. We need to be realistic and not assume that our audience understands the full background to what we are saying, or is capable of relating what we say to the very heart of the Gospel which gives it meaning, beauty and attractiveness.
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estesbob
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The problem is in US politics “trickle down” is a politically loaded term.
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CaptFun
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And my best to you and yours. (And any other readers who pass this way).
Thank you Lord for our many blessings! May we always imitate your generosity in our dealings with those less fortunate … in the true spirit of Pope Francis’ pastoral address to us.
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Crossbones
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Many do, as the original poster who said ‘right-leaning’ definitely did. A lot of postings on this site call out the ‘left’ or ‘liberals’ as well. I look forward to your condemnation on all posters that mention left, liberal, right, conservative, etc. instead of just the one who said ‘right’.
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Timothysis
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Thank you very much for your post, Father; it certainly has cleared things up for me.
I couldn’t agree more! Not everything is about the USA. There’s a whole world out there!
In Latin America, where the Holy Father is from, capitalism does not really exist in USA style. There are few to no limits on monopolies and even basic labor protections are rejected as “anti-business.” There exists little to no social safety net, if you are unable to work you starve. Giant monopolies, corruption, no labor protection, etc. are all justified in the name of capitalism and “freedom”, and anyone who disagrees must be a communist! Of course, its just as obscene in reverse in socialist countries like Venezuela, but that’s not what the Holy Father is addressing.
Here in the USA, imho, the Holy Father’s words are food for thought rather than a direct challenge. Very few American conservatives see their economic policies are the solution to social ills but we should always keep in the forefront of our minds how our economic policies affect the poor both here and abroad…
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ProVobis
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estesbob
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Also from the document:
- Among the vulnerable for whom the Church wishes to care with particular love and concern are unborn children, the most defenseless and innocent among us.
Nowadays efforts are made to deny them their human dignity and to do with them whatever one pleases, taking their lives and passing laws preventing anyone from standing in the way of this.
Frequently, as a way of ridiculing the Church’s effort to defend their lives, attempts are made to present her position as ideological, obscurantist and conservative.
Yet this defense of unborn life is closely linked to the defense of each and every other human right.
It involves the conviction that a human being is always sacred and inviolable, in any situation and at every stage of development.
Human beings are ends in themselves and never a means of resolving other problems.
Once this conviction disappears, so do solid and lasting foundations for the defense of human rights, which would always be subject to the passing whims of the powers that be.
Reason alone is sufficient to recognize the inviolable value of each single human life, but if we also look at the issue from the standpoint of faith, “every violation of the personal dignity of the human being cries out in vengeance to God and is an offence against the creator of the individual”. - Precisely because this involves the internal consistency of our message about the value of the human person, the Church cannot be expected to change her position on this question.
I want to be completely honest in this regard.
This is not something subject to alleged reforms or “modernizations”.
It is not “progressive” to try to resolve problems by eliminating a human life.
On the other hand, it is also true that we have done little to adequately accompany women in very difficult situations, where abortion appears as a quick solution to their profound anguish, especially when the life developing within them is the result of rape or a situation of extreme poverty.
Who can remain unmoved before such painful situations?
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Darryl1958
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The pope truly is all things to all people in that respect. He agrees with each and every one of us in his words.
Now if we could only agree with each other…
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Crossbones
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There is so much interesting here. A lot I think would be of little dispute among us, but where there is dispute about the role of government, I thought this is telling
- I ask God to give us more politicians capable of sincere and effective dialogue aimed at healing the deepest roots – and not simply the appearances – of the evils in our world! Politics, though often denigrated, remains a lofty vocation and one of the highest forms of charity, inasmuch as it seeks the common good.[174] We need to be convinced that charity “is the principle not only of micro-relationships (with friends, with family members or within small groups) but also of macro-relationships (social, economic and political ones)”.[175] I beg the Lord to grant us more politicians who are genuinely disturbed by the state of society, the people, the lives of the poor! It is vital that government leaders and financial leaders take heed and broaden their horizons, working to ensure that all citizens have dignified work, education and healthcare. Why not turn to God and ask him to inspire their plans? I am firmly convinced that openness to the transcendent can bring about a new political and economic mindset which would help to break down the wall of separation between the economy and the common good of society.
- Economy, as the very word indicates, should be the art of achieving a fitting management of our common home, which is the world as a whole. Each meaningful economic decision made in one part of the world has repercussions everywhere else; consequently, no government can act without regard for shared responsibility. Indeed, it is becoming increasingly difficult to find local solutions for enormous global problems which overwhelm local politics with difficulties to resolve. If we really want to achieve a healthy world economy, what is needed at this juncture of history is a more efficient way of interacting which, with due regard for the sovereignty of each nation, ensures the economic well-being of all countries, not just of a few.
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Ender
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It isn’t so much rejecting his words as it is understanding them. What is a “trickle-down” economy and which nations have one?
I don’t know that this is true but I’m not aware of any unfettered capitalistic systems so I’m not sure it matters.
Right, this is the problem: what is being said here?
Ender
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RACJ
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THere is a clip of Milton Friedman on Phil Donahue which I have heard several times. Pope Francis would have a much better understanding of the superiority of free market capitalism (NOT crony “capitalism”) if he availed himself of it. 
BTW, for those unaware, Rush Limbaugh has, for 25 years, spoken very respectfully of the RC Church and its leaders. However, I think that many Catholics and Protestants alike are perplexed by some of Pope Francis’ recent statements; some might say distressed.
BTW, for those unaware, Rush Limbaugh has, for 25 years, spoken very respectfully of the RC Church and its leaders. However, I think that many Catholics and Protestants alike are perplexed by some of Pope Francis’ recent statements; some might say distressed.
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Michael_Mayo
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Ther is plenty to both challenge and inspire all of us.
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seekerz
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You’re not aware of any “unfettered capitalistic systems”? That’s strange, considering how I grew up hearing the Pope and clergy refer to it. The best online example I can find right now is this, but I’m pretty sure it was a theme brought up more than once, not simply by this Pope but by JP2 as well.
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seekerz
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Perplexed? Distressed? Why?THere is a clip of Milton Friedman on Phil Donahue which I have heard several times. Pope Francis would have a much better understanding of the superiority of free market capitalism (NOT crony “capitalism”) if he availed himself of it.
BTW, for those unaware, Rush Limbaugh has, for 25 years, spoken very respectfully of the RC Church and its leaders. However, I think that many Catholics and Protestants alike are perplexed by some of Pope Francis’ recent statements; some might say distressed.
The Pope is criticizing a worldly system, which like everything worldly is imperfect. Not sure what could possibly be so distressing about that…
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RACJ
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Either a collection of individual decisions OR impersonal centralized power determines the fate of humanity. I vote with the individual, and I hope that the Pope does as well. You concur with me that “everything worldly is imperfect”, so WHO exactly should make the decisions to make our system more “fair”?
Rob
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estesbob
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Hopefully not the same people who bought us ObamacareEither a collection of individual decisions OR impersonal centralized power determines the fate of humanity. I vote with the individual, and I hope that the Pope does as well. You concur with me that “everything worldly is imperfect”, so WHO exactly should make the decisions to make our system more “fair”?
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epan
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This pope appears to have a clearer grasp of history than some others have. History does repeat itself. The widening economic disparity which we are observing will predictably lead to some form of tyranny, if the lessons of history still apply.
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gnjsdad
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This is a distinction without a difference. From its infancy, capitalism has always been “crony” in essence. From Henry VIII’s expropriation of Church property which he and his successors gave to their allies (thus making them immensely wealthy) to Barack Obama nursing Wall Street back to health after the financial crisis, cronyism and capitalism have been inseparable. Capitalism cannot exist without cronyism. of course now, “crony capitalism” is a term applied to the capitalist system when it is administered by those one does not like politically. But that does not change the fact that there can never be a capitalist system that isn’t “crony” in nature. When the economically powerful get control of government, they inevitably write the rules that make it easier for them to amass more wealth and suppress their competition. That is the nature of capitalism.
Just as ideological liberals are doing so now…
A Catholic without ideological blinders should not be distressed at all about what the Pope is saying now about unjust economic systems.
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