Pope Francis denounces ‘trickle-down’ economic theories in critique of inequality

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ReConverted said:
Silvio, AMEN. May I ask you a side question? What do European Bishops think of Gov’t healthcare? Somehow, I think most of them support it.
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Clearly any Govt run Healthcare system that includes all citizens is to be supported as our Bishops have done for decades now…
 
Silvio_Dante said:
Clearly any Govt run Healthcare system that includes all citizens is to be supported as our Bishops have done for decades now…
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That’s what I figured. 🙂 I’m leaving this forum, but may I suggest that you start a thread on how and why European bishops support this. (They’re correct!) Might be a much needed eye opener!

God bless!
 
ReConverted said:
Any port in a storm. Why don’t you tell that to my friend who took early retirement from a major insurer because she was disgusted due to people dying due to their illnesses not being cost effective. THERE are your death panels, folks. Why are WE in the US paying much higher drug prices that countries like Canada? It’s because Pharmaceutical companies buy off GOP and Tea Party Congressmen. When the last time the GOP crowed about THAT, eh?
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It’s not quite that simple, and condemning a political party won’t make it any simpler.

People dying due to their treatments not being cost effective? I have seen insurers pay out incredible sums on treatments that failed in the end. That’s actually one of the reasons why healthcare is so expensive in the U.S.; because the system will pretty much do everything. If a cancer treatment offers a 5% chance of success, doctors will try it and most insurers will pay for it. That costs a lot, and it’s not so everywhere. You have your friend, I have mine. One friend of mine was given six months to live upon receiving a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer. His doctor held out aggressive treatment as the only possibility of extending (not saving) his life. His insurer paid over a million dollars for his treatment and he died six months later. That costs. My own wife works for an association that serves the disabled. It’s government regulated, and they are required to do absolutely everything, and to grotesque excess. One of the governmental agencies even joked that it is his job to “abuse the system” through overutilization.

One of the reasons why drug prices are higher here (though not exclusively so) is that many of the Canadian drugs aren’t quite the same thing, even though they use the names used here. Many of them are close, but they’re not the same. And a LOT of Canadian drugs are made in places like India and Thailand. Look them up. If you’re okay with that, then okay. I’m a little less sanguine about knowing nothing about the conditions of their preparation.
 
Silvio_Dante said:
Its a real eye opener from my European perspective to see so many American Catholics whose loyalty to an unregulated Free Market is unerring. Despite the evidence of its poisonous effects on the Third World and our Pope’s open denouncing of its principles…
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Who cares about what Europe does or thinks? Europe isn’t doing too good right now last time I checked.
 
ReConverted said:
Sure, Ishii, you go with that story. Lots of Catholics worshiping mammon on this forum. It’s disgusting.
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ReConverted said:
I’m utterly disgusted by the worship of mammon by so many on CAF. 😦 I wish you all well, and may God bless you and yours. Fare thee well.
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Hey, I thought you were leaving:
ReConverted said:
That’s what I figured. 🙂 I’m leaving this forum, but may I suggest that you start a thread on how and why European bishops support this. (They’re correct!) Might be a much needed eye opener!

God bless!
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I can’t exactly respond to you and Silvio and worship mammon at the same time…
 
ReConverted said:
That’s what I figured. 🙂 I’m leaving this forum, but may I suggest that you start a thread on how and why European bishops support this. (They’re correct!) Might be a much needed eye opener!

God bless!
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Obama hasn’t helped himself with his rather limp wristed attempts at the introduction of his Healthcare system.

He is a massive disappointment as President it has to be said. The sooner Hillary takes over, the better.

That takes nothing away from the morality of a Healthcare system that includes all citizens.

Leaving is obviously your choice but I’m sure some TP advocates will see it as a little victory…
 
Silvio_Dante said:
Obama hasn’t helped himself with his rather limp wristed attempts at the introduction of his Healthcare system.

He is a massive disappointment as President it has to be said. The sooner Hillary takes over, the better.

That takes nothing away from the morality of a Healthcare system that includes all citizens.

Leaving is obviously your choice but I’m sure some TP advocates will see it as a little victory…
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Last time I checked all Americans have access to healthcare. They cannot be denied healthcare, it’s the law. Where we disagree is how to pay for it. What is your response to my claim that the AMA has a government supported monopoly on healthcare in the US and control the supply of healthcare and thus the price?
 
freeRadical said:
Why should America emulate Europe’s failed social and economic experiments?
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I could care less what American civil society does. Well I do but I realise I have no control over it.

I’m speaking from a European, Catholic perspective. To see fellow Catholics in America give such overt support to a unregulated free Market that brings such division, poverty and greed to daily life. Such things that should be athema to a Catholic’s way of thinking. Is an eye opener…
 
freeRadical said:
Last time I checked all Americans have access to healthcare. They cannot be denied healthcare, it’s the law. Where we disagree is how to pay for it. What is your response to my claim that the AMA has a government supported monopoly on healthcare in the US and control the supply of healthcare and thus the price?
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In European terms, the AMA would be viewed as a Right Wing instrument, designed to fill the pockets of Private Healthcare companies.

However when one looks at the bigger picture and the devastating divisions in your society where equality of access to Healthcare has never been a reality, the AMA is a massive step in the right direction…
 
Silvio_Dante said:
I could care less what American civil society does. Well I do but I realise I have no control over it.

I’m speaking from a European, Catholic perspective. To see fellow Catholics in America give such overt support to a unregulated free Market that brings such division, poverty and greed to daily life. Such things that should be athema to a Catholic’s way of thinking. Is an eye opener…
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And I could care less what Europe does. The free market has done more to alleviate poverty and improve the condition of millions of people then any government could ever claim to do. If you what to look at division then look at the Democrats. This country is more divided then ever thanks to the Left’s tactics of class warfare, envy, and hate.
 
Silvio_Dante said:
In European terms, the AMA would be viewed as a Right Wing instrument, designed to fill the pockets of Private Healthcare companies.

However when one looks at the bigger picture and the devastating divisions in your society where equality of access to Healthcare has never been a reality, the AMA is a massive step in the right direction…
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Again, everyone has equal access to healthcare in America, they cannot be denied care, it’s the law. So you are okay with a government supported monopoly that controls the supply of healthcare? The AMA is a private organization but it is supported by the government.
 
freeRadical said:
And I could care less what Europe does. The free market has done more to alleviate poverty and improve the condition of millions of people then any government could ever claim to do. If you what to look at division then look at the Democrats. This country is more divided then ever thanks to the Left’s tactics of class warfare, envy, and hate.
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You’re still missing the Catholic content of my post. Intentionally…?
 
Silvio_Dante said:
So its either because I’m a dumb Irishman or the translators got the Pope’s words mixed up.

Seriously…😃 The pope’s words are there for all to see. Now its up to us to heed them or ignore them…
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Excellent markmanship! You shot the strawman right between the eyes! Never did I call you a “dumb Irishman”. I merely said that, being Irish (if you are) you might not be as conversant with American political idioms as Americans are. I’m sure there are Irish idioms that most Americans don’t understand in the way Irish people do either either.
If you don’t know that “trickle down” is an American leftist misrepresentation of Reagan’s across-the-board tax cuts, (then revived for Bush’s) then clearly you aren’t that familiar with the expression as it’s used here.

Do you really think Pope Francis intended to say that reducing taxes for everyone is a bad thing? Do you really?

In the course of heeding Pope Francis’ statement as you urge, perhaps it’s really up to us to read the whole thing and to also read its antecedents in the Papal Social Encyclicals, with which Pope Francis’ statement is otherwise entirely consistent. It’s of no value to focus on one American idiomatic expression and ignore everything else, though it might be more fun for some to do so.

But in my opinion, use of the idiom by the translator in the English version has been problematic for the Church in the U.S. It has been confusing for Catholics and non-Catholics alike. The translator could have expressed the Pope’s intent without resorting to a term used in America only by the left, and then only to misrepresent and insult. And, as has been noted on here previously, it’s different in other language translations.
 
freeRadical said:
Again, everyone has equal access to healthcare in America, they cannot be denied care, it’s the law. So you are okay with a government supported monopoly that controls the supply of healthcare? The AMA is a private organization but it is supported by the government.
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On come on mate. A bit of reality is required here. There has never been equality of access to Healthcare in America and you know it. Access should be based on health needs whereas in reality its been based on the size of your wallet of if you’re lucky enough to be in a work place plan.

The AMA levels the playing field greatly. This is to be greatly applauded.

Its far from perfect or close to our/European Socially equitable standards but you’re going in the right direction…
 
DennyO said:
The extract provided would deem most lending practices today by financial institutions, perhaps excluding credit unions, to be usury. Not only by end result, but also by intent.
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I thought that at first too, except that they are passing judgment on a specific type of lending institution that targets the poor. Kind of like the old version of Payday Loan places and not general lending institutions which tend to target the rich.
 
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