"Pope Francis Digs at Vatican's Narcissistic Nature.."

[Abba]

Abba,
You are missing out on the goodness of so many, getting caught up in a priest being some sort of royalty.

It is not that I do not understanding nor recognize the role and responsibility of the laity in bringing about God’s Kingdom on earth. We have have a duty as Christians to evangelize and help the Church. Neither is it the case that I want to treat priests as ‘royalty’. We all share in the royal priesthood. So for that matter we are all royal.

My problem here is when people attack the priests and then dance around and try to make it look as though they are not attacking. And when confronted respond diplomatically, dressing the avoided response with a lot of inapplicable historical data, taking information presented by the questioner and integrating it with there own response as if they were the ones to introduce the information into the argument, strawman, argumentum ad hominem, etc…

The result is like a swarm of bees attacking a person, no one bee is responsible for the totality of the damages done, but the little attacks are there and are harmful. Yet. it is all claimed to be nothing, people are advised not to reverenced, respect and honor their priests but supposedly that is not really what is being said - really? The Pope is addressing an issue of narcissism in the Vatican and people take the opportunity to apply it to all the priests and use this as a justification to advice the laity to not reverence their priests and if they do they are contributing to clericalism.

 

[Abba]

Supposedly the person understands that priests have an ontological mark but one thing is to say and another is to recognize it in your speech and in how you are advising people to treat their priests. To justify not treating the priests with reverence the argument was presented that not all priests are smart and competent etc… this does not diminish the value of their ordination. There are a lot of young immature priests that may lack experience in certain areas and this is natural but just because it is so does not diminish the value of the priesthood nor that it is not good for the laity to reverence, love and honor their priest. If we don’t we are the losers.

You can say and not say something, either a priest has an ontological mark which distinguishes him from the laity spiritual or he doesn’t. If he does than it should be obvious that he cannot go back to the rank and file of the laity once he is done with his priestly duties. To promote this is wrong and incorrect and just because with the same breath the person says - do this but yeah, they do have an ontological mark - well - I see this as a contradiction.

An ontological mark? What is is it meant by that and why would that create a conflict with the laity treating their priests as their equal after they are done with their priestly duties? Well, it is a conflict. A very spiritual impossibility for me because I am spiritually sensitive, I spiritually recognize that a priest is different and has greater spiritual power than I do as a laity. I also, spiritually, recognize that a Bishop has greater spiritual power/strength than a priest. It is not just their power that distinguishes them it is also the fact that they were called by Our Lord Jesus and set apart to guide, preach and feed the sheep. We are called to be docile with them and obedient or we are the losers. This does not mean that we blindly follow - we follow with wisdom and faith.

I am going to share a personal experience here. One day I was on a train. It was rush hour and there was standing room only. I had a seat and was reading. When the train came to a stop the doors opened and closed and people came in and out. I was not raising my head to see who was coming in and out as the train made its stops. I just kept reading. On one of the stops, the doors opened and I sensed a presence come in - it was different. I raised my head to see and I saw an old man that looked really tired. I kept looking at him as I had sensed him and not sure why. Since he was old and tired, I signaled to him to come and tapped the space of the seat near me. I wanted to offer him my seat but if I got up too soon someone would quickly take it. So I wanted the man who was familiar with the way things work to come closer before I got up. He walked towards me and I offered him my seat. He said something about me being much too kind and that we could probably both share the space and we were able to. I was jet lagged so I was glad to be able to remain seated.

I asked the man if he was a priest and he burst out laughing. He asked me how did I know. I told him you tell me, you are the priest. I sensed your presence when you entered the car and I no offense but I noticed that you were tired. He said that no offense was taken as he recognized that he was an old man and that yeah, he had been feeling very tired lately. He said that he was not using his collar and although he knew it for some reason he wanted to take off his scarf and unbutton his coat and touch his neck. All along laughing and a little impressed that someone could tell. Well, I was just staying in that country for a limited time and the priest spent time with me and my family. He needed to talk with someone who understood his faith and who he was. I don’t know that I was of any help. but, it was an encounter.

This has happened to me twice in my life where I was able to identify a priest although the man had no visible signs of being a priest. I never mis-identified. I don’t go around asking people if they are priests, the two times I asked the answer was yes. The second time, I didn’t really asked, it was a more profound experience but the identifying was made.

Perhaps, this is not the best place to share these experiences, but I am doing so to note that a priest is spiritually different and not to offend the laity but I am going to use the word superior. Yet, their duty is to serve us but we should acknowledge that they were picked from the flock and are men of God.

Perhaps, it is the laity that is being narcissistic trying to diminish and mutilate the priesthood so they can take over where they are not suppose to.

Peace

 

[Abba]

I understand how religious communities work and, that priests serve in different capacities in different areas for the Church. The role of an ordained priest in a community of religious does not justify denying inherent aspects of ordination to justify the same role in the world and how the religious and laity can take over roles that are special to priests - such as that of shepherd.

To proclaim that the role of an ordained priest in a Franciscan community where the ordained brother goes back to the rank and file after administering the sacrament is applicable across the board is irresponsible.

 

[Abba]

Supposedly the person understands that priests have an ontological mark but one thing is to say and another is to recognize it in your speech and in how you are advising people to treat their priests. To justify not treating the priests with reverence the argument was presented that not all priests are smart and competent etc… this does not diminish the value of their ordination. There are a lot of young immature priests that may lack experience in certain areas and this is natural but just because it is so does not diminish the value of the priesthood nor that it is not good for the laity to reverence, love and honor their priest. If we don’t we are the losers.

You can say and not say something, either a priest has an ontological mark which distinguishes him from the laity spiritual or he doesn’t. If he does than it should be obvious that he cannot go back to the rank and file of the laity once he is done with his priestly duties. To promote this is wrong and incorrect and just because with the same breath the person says - do this but yeah, they do have an ontological mark - well - I see this as a contradiction.

An ontological mark? What is is it meant by that and why would that create a conflict with the laity treating their priests as their equal after they are done with their priestly duties? Well, it is a conflict. A very spiritual impossibility for me because I am spiritually sensitive, I spiritually recognize that a priest is different and has greater spiritual power than I do as a laity. I also, spiritually, recognize that a Bishop has greater spiritual power/strength than a priest. It is not just their power that distinguishes them it is also the fact that they were called by Our Lord Jesus and set apart to guide, preach and feed the sheep. We are called to be docile with them and obedient or we are the losers. This does not mean that we blindly follow - we follow with wisdom and faith.

I am going to share a personal experience here. One day I was on a train. It was rush hour and there was standing room only. I had a seat and was reading. When the train came to a stop the doors opened and closed and people came in and out. I was not raising my head to see who was coming in and out as the train made its stops. I just kept reading. On one of the stops, the doors opened and I sensed a presence come in - it was different. I raised my head to see and I saw an old man that looked really tired. I kept looking at him as I had sensed him and not sure why. Since he was old and tired, I signaled to him to come and tapped the space of the seat near me. I wanted to offer him my seat but if I got up too soon someone would quickly take it. So I wanted the man who was familiar with the way things work to come closer before I got up. He walked towards me and I offered him my seat. He said something about me being much too kind and that we could probably both share the space and we were able to. I was jet lagged so I was glad to be able to remain seated.

I asked the man if he was a priest and he burst out laughing. He asked me how did I know. I told him you tell me, you are the priest. I sensed your presence when you entered the car and I no offense but I noticed that you were tired. He said that no offense was taken as he recognized that he was an old man and that yeah, he had been feeling very tired lately. He said that he was not using his collar and although he knew it for some reason he wanted to take off his scarf and unbutton his coat and touch his neck. All along laughing and a little impressed that someone could tell. Well, I was just staying in that country for a limited time and the priest spent time with me and my family. He needed to talk with someone who understood his faith and who he was. I don’t know that I was of any help. but, it was an encounter.

This has happened to me twice in my life where I was able to identify a priest although the man had no visible signs of being a priest. I never mis-identified. I don’t go around asking people if they are priests, the two times I asked the answer was yes. The second time, I didn’t really asked, it was a more profound experience but the identifying was made.

Perhaps, this is not the best place to share these experiences, but I am doing so to note that a priest is spiritually different and not to offend the laity but I am going to use the word superior. Yet, their duty is to serve us but we should acknowledge that they were picked from the flock and are men of God.

Perhaps, it is the laity and some religious that is being narcissistic trying to diminish and mutilate the priesthood so they can take over where they are not suppose to.

Peace

 

[shelby_sun]

I understand how religious communities work and, that priests serve in different capacities in different areas for the Church. The role of an ordained priest in a community of religious does not justify denying inherent aspects of ordination to justify the same role in the world and how the religious and laity can take over roles that are special to priests - such as that of shepherd.

To proclaim that the role of an ordained priest in a Franciscan community where the ordained brother goes back to the rank and file after administering the sacrament is applicable across the board is irresponsible.

Again, I just do not see where anyone has bashed, being disrespectful, or irresponsible to any priests. I am now thinking you are just trying to stir things up by continuing on the way you are. Not only are you coming across as quite arrogant yourself, it would be people that think the way you do that would lead to narcissism in the clergy.

Who are you to say how a long standing respected religious order should handle things. Really!? The bottom line is that the leaders of our Church selected Pope Francis as our Pope knowing he did not want to be praised or revered. That kind of attitude has lead many of our priest astray. Our faith is not about our relationship to a priest but rather our relationship with God and each other as his servants. Just because a man became a priest makes him no better that anyone else.

This needs to be a time of healing and leading people back to the Church. Revering priest is not going to help that. Showing others how much God love them, how much mercy he has for us as sinners, and that he loves all of us as his children is what the Church is about right now under Pope Francis’ leadership. There is no more time for narcissistic attitudes in our Church, from priest, laity, or the practicing Catholic. I for one am thrilled with that.

 

[Abba]

Just because a man became a priest makes him no better that anyone else.

That’s where our understanding differs.

Yet, when the difference between priests and laity is presented as ‘better or not’ it does not express the essence of the difference. At ordination the priests are empowered with graces the laity does not have, they are empowered in a certain way to preach, feed and are sent on a pastoral mission. If we recognize their distinction and position it is only natural for the laity to respect, reverence, love and honor the priests. I don’t have a problem doing that, far from arrogant, I have the humility to do so.

It is out of love that God gives us priests. The priests are our servants but they are spiritually empowered to conduct their mission which sets them apart from the laity.
We need to acknowledge the difference.

If we do not acknowledge that God provides us with priests that cannot be minimized to functions how is God suppose to give us more? More what? Priests or what we want and how we want to define them?

Peace

 

[Abba]

Priests cannot be replaced by the laity, Pope Benedict explains

“Hence,” the Pope cautioned, “it is important to avoid the secularization of clergy and the ‘clericalization’ of the laity.”

"When dioceses are faced with a lack of priests, the Pope emphasized that they should not resort to “a more active and abundant participation of the laity” since it could take away from their own calling.

“The truth is that the greater the faithful’s awareness of their own responsibilities within the Church, the clearer becomes the specific identity and inimitable role of the priest as pastor of the entire community, witness to the authenticity of the faith, and dispenser of the mysteries of salvation in the name of Christ the Head,” Benedict XVI stated."

catholicnewsagency.com/news/priests_cannot_be_replaced_by_the_laity_pope_benedict_explains/

 

[Brendan_64]

"When dioceses are faced with a lack of priests, the Pope emphasized that they should not resort to “a more active and abundant participation of the laity” since it could take away from their own calling.

Abba,

I might have disagreed with some things you’ve said on this thread, but I’ve got to hand it to you there. That is an excellent line from Pope Benedict that you’ve just quoted, and very true.

 

[shelby_sun]

Abba,

I might have disagreed with some things you’ve said on this thread, but I’ve got to hand it to you there. That is an excellent line from Pope Benedict that you’ve just quoted, and very true.

Just curious, what would be your answer when there are simply not enough priest. To work a pastor into the ground is simply not the answer. I have seen priest that are spread way to thin which is not good for anyone.

Hopefully, Pope Francis will bring a new calling to man around the world to become priest, but it won’t be by being revered, but rather because they will want to be a servant of God.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Just curious, what would be your answer when there are simply not enough priest. To work a pastor into the ground is simply not the answer. I have seen priest that are spread way to thin which is not good for anyone.

You didn’t ask me, but I’d like to respond.

The answer is not making them work harder at tasks which are not essential and specific to priesthood, such as dry administrative tasks. Now, if he is the pastor/only priest, then a certain amount of decision-making (regarding administration) must fall to him, but the details can be carried out by trusted, competent others. He merely has to exercise oversight. The oversight that he should concentrate on (in addition to sacraments & devotions) should be:

~formation in the faith. That means he should know, approve what materials are being used for religious instruction (all ages), who is instructing, and how learners are being instructed. It means also that he should oversee any RCIA program as well.
~what lay groups the parish does and does not sponsor, host, and get involved in.
~the policies of the parish, regarding things like when the church is open for prayer, general relations with the community, other parishes, etc.
~the content of the weekly bulletin.

Too often, in the last several years, I have seen almost the opposite in a typical parish:

Laity practically controls the liturgy. That includes “telling Father what to do” (within the rite of the Mass, funerals, etc. “This is how we like it, Father.”)
Faith formation is virtually entirely conceived and carried out by laity, with Father invited out of the process. This includes RCIA.
Laity not only publish the bulletin, but control most of its content.
Laity voice low priority for confession opportunities. (‘Who needs it?’)
The general policies of the parish, with regard to the community, are much more a result of lay decisions than clerical, due to assumptions, pressure, past custom, etc. Father arrives on scene receiving a “given” set of routines and is given a choice of…

accepting what others have decided,
or
enthusiastically accepting what others have decided. This includes the dynamics of Parish Councils, in which Father is often expected merely to rubber-stamp the consensus, as opposed to vetoing inappropriate priorities or decisions and providing new direction.

And what is communicated to Father that he “should” do?

Become a community activist. (first priority) Not a man of prayer, spiritual director, and administrator of sacraments, but a community organizer and pal of every committee for which others make demands on his time.

Handle operations, budgets, and other mind-numbing, soul-killing tasks which seasoned administrators are perfectly capable of doing instead.

Apparently what he should not do is provide leadership regarding the kind of parish he would like to build, but should be dependent on and secondary to others with regard to that leadership.

The whole reverse role-playing is an outrage on its face.

Hopefully, Pope Francis will bring a new calling to man around the world to become priest, but it won’t be by being revered, but rather because they will want to be a servant of God.

Perhaps you misunderstand what at least one poster was referring to? (At least the following was my own interpretation) The “being revered” part is not about pride or being served but about being needed for indispensable functions – namely, ministering to souls. Unless souls understand that they need that, and that makes a priest singularly necessary and valuable in a way no lay person can provide, then a priest is not sufficiently “revered.”

Seminarians do not sign up to be glorified but underpaid business managers and lackeys for others. They enter with spiritual intentions and have a right to have those intentions realized.

 

[Brendan_64]

Just curious, what would be your answer when there are simply not enough priest. To work a pastor into the ground is simply not the answer.

Working the priest into the ground isn’t the answer. However there is also an assumption that laity are not being worked into the ground in their lives either. Some priests can be a little guilty of thinking that all the laity do is turn up to mass on Sunday, go home and put their feet up for the week.

Of course there are many things that the laity can, and do, help out with in the parish, but we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that all of us on the earth (not just the priest) have our own mission to fulfill, and pulling in the laity too much to make up for a shortage of priests, can pull individuals away from their own missions. That would not be a healthy thing to do. There is more to Christian mission that the local parish church.

 

[shelby_sun]

Working the priest into the ground isn’t the answer. However there is also an assumption that laity are not being worked into the ground in their lives either. Some priests can be a little guilty of thinking that all the laity do is turn up to mass on Sunday, go home and put their feet up for the week.

Of course there are many things that the laity can, and do, help out with in the parish, but we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that all of us on the earth (not just the priest) have our own mission to fulfill, and pulling in the laity too much to make up for a shortage of priests, can pull individuals away from their own missions. That would not be a healthy thing to do. There is more to Christian mission that the local parish church.

I agree. Hopefully Pope Francis will inspire more men to consider becoming priests to help with the shortage.

 

[Abba]

You didn’t ask me, but I’d like to respond.

The answer is not making them work harder at tasks which are not essential and specific to priesthood, such as dry administrative tasks. Now, if he is the pastor/only priest, then a certain amount of decision-making (regarding administration) must fall to him, but the details can be carried out by trusted, competent others. He merely has to exercise oversight. The oversight that he should concentrate on (in addition to sacraments & devotions) should be:

~formation in the faith. That means he should know, approve what materials are being used for religious instruction (all ages), who is instructing, and how learners are being instructed. It means also that he should oversee any RCIA program as well.
~what lay groups the parish does and does not sponsor, host, and get involved in.
~the policies of the parish, regarding things like when the church is open for prayer, general relations with the community, other parishes, etc.
~the content of the weekly bulletin.

Too often, in the last several years, I have seen almost the opposite in a typical parish:

Laity practically controls the liturgy. That includes “telling Father what to do” (within the rite of the Mass, funerals, etc. “This is how we like it, Father.”)
Faith formation is virtually entirely conceived and carried out by laity, with Father invited out of the process. This includes RCIA.
Laity not only publish the bulletin, but control most of its content.
Laity voice low priority for confession opportunities. (‘Who needs it?’)
The general policies of the parish, with regard to the community, are much more a result of lay decisions than clerical, due to assumptions, pressure, past custom, etc. Father arrives on scene receiving a “given” set of routines and is given a choice of…

accepting what others have decided,
or
enthusiastically accepting what others have decided. This includes the dynamics of Parish Councils, in which Father is often expected merely to rubber-stamp the consensus, as opposed to vetoing inappropriate priorities or decisions and providing new direction.

And what is communicated to Father that he “should” do?

Become a community activist. (first priority) Not a man of prayer, spiritual director, and administrator of sacraments, but a community organizer and pal of every committee for which others make demands on his time.

Handle operations, budgets, and other mind-numbing, soul-killing tasks which seasoned administrators are perfectly capable of doing instead.

Apparently what he should not do is provide leadership regarding the kind of parish he would like to build, but should be dependent on and secondary to others with regard to that leadership.

The whole reverse role-playing is an outrage on its face.

Perhaps you misunderstand what at least one poster was referring to? (At least the following was my own interpretation) The “being revered” part is not about pride or being served but about being needed for indispensable functions – namely, ministering to souls. Unless souls understand that they need that, and that makes a priest singularly necessary and valuable in a way no lay person can provide, then a priest is not sufficiently “revered.”

Seminarians do not sign up to be glorified but underpaid business managers and lackeys for others. They enter with spiritual intentions and have a right to have those intentions realized.

A masterpiece of a post!

Thank you.

God bless.

 

[Darken_Rahl]

Again, I just do not see where anyone has bashed, being disrespectful, or irresponsible to any priests. I am now thinking you are just trying to stir things up by continuing on the way you are. Not only are you coming across as quite arrogant yourself, it would be people that think the way you do that would lead to narcissism in the clergy.

Who are you to say how a long standing respected religious order should handle things. Really!? The bottom line is that the leaders of our Church selected Pope Francis as our Pope knowing he did not want to be praised or revered. That kind of attitude has lead many of our priest astray. Our faith is not about our relationship to a priest but rather our relationship with God and each other as his servants. Just because a man became a priest makes him no better that anyone else.

This needs to be a time of healing and leading people back to the Church. Revering priest is not going to help that. Showing others how much God love them, how much mercy he has for us as sinners, and that he loves all of us as his children is what the Church is about right now under Pope Francis’ leadership. There is no more time for narcissistic attitudes in our Church, from priest, laity, or the practicing Catholic. I for one am thrilled with that.

Better is such a relative term as to be somewhat meaningless, but the fact is, a Priest does not need a single other person to confect the Eucharist. And the Eucharist is the only thing that keeps Satan from essentially having free reign over the world. It is Christ among us, literally.

I would not be too quick to dismiss the essential nature of Priests or too quick to inflate the self-importance of each of us as members of the laity. Gnerally, I see little value in comparisons of this kind in terms of “who is more important” anyway.

Much like the Pope’s statement of “women are more important than Priests,” I see little value (or truth) in declaring that.

 

[Abba]

Seminarians do not sign up to be glorified but underpaid business managers and lackeys for others. They enter with spiritual intentions and have a right to have those intentions realized.

Right.
The seminarians have a right to have their spiritual intentions realized and that is one thing. The other is the role of Our Lord Jesus in all of this. Our Lord is the one that calls young men to be priests. It’s not the Pope and it’s not the Bishops. Neither is it the case that Catholic men consider it as an optional ‘career’. It’s Our Lord who calls.

We need to recognize, each of us that being a priest is a call and the head of the ministerial priesthood is Our Lord Jesus Himself. It is Jesus Himself that wants priests to be leaders of the communities they have been given charge by their Bishop as Pope Benedict XVI noted [to be] ‘pastor of the entire community, witness to the authenticity of the faith, and dispenser of the mysteries of salvation in the name of Christ the Head,". It is the way Jesus built His Church, He wants His Church unified and the priests unifies the communities they are given charge of and the Bishop the diocese and the Pope the whole community of faithful’s (and in each strata everyone else) and Jesus is the head Himself.

People argue that the priests are not part of the hierarchy and the priesthood was not established by Our Lord Jesus. That what Jesus established as his Church was the Pope and the Bishops (Peter and the Apostles). Well, there are a lot of considerations to justify the priesthood and I will leave that to the theologians, as a faithful, it suffices to me to know and accept that they are part of the ministerial priesthood when Our Lord Jesus comes to us through their hands and in the other sacraments. As a faithful, when a priest at the Sacrament of Reconciliation tells me: Your sins are forgiven, I know that they are forgiven and I have been spiritually cleansed. So, it is obvious to me as a faithful that the priesthood is valid because Jesus comes to be through the priests and the sacraments are valid.

Well, given all those considerations, it should be evident that Jesus is the one that calls men to be priests, if they answer the call, they are then empowered with a laying of hands (ordination) that is directly linked back to when Jesus Himself placed His own hands on the apostles. They are empowered to carry out their mission. And, this empowerment has an effect of essence on their spirit. And, their crown is our salvation – the priesthood is not for the priest – it’s for the people.

It then stands to reason, that it is the will of God for us to reverence, love and honor the priest as it is Jesus who provides us with priests to guide and feed us. Priests are men of God who have been empowered to guide us. We want to be part of that unity God wants in His Church, so we unite ourselves with a parish community under the leadership of a priest who has been given charge by the Bishop of the dioceses.

Hence, to allow priests leadership of our communities and to reverence, love and honor them should not only be done because the seminarians have a right to have their spiritual intentions realized but also because it is the will of God.

+++
I remember hearing a speech of Bishop Sheen where he said that he had learned that hundreds of Protestants had become Catholic priests to attack/dismantle the Church from within. Bishop
Sheen said that some confessed to him and repented but not all and they were still in the priesthood. The other thing too that can happen is that people with particular agendas may infiltrate the priesthood and they to promote their agendas from within. That is a concern for the guards of the seminaries who must watch the doors like lions. Yes, and also we know that priests maintain their free will and sin. Also that Satan and his demons love to attack priests they hover above them waiting for a good opportunity to attack – they are a favorite morceau for them (pray for our priests). Btw, a priest does not have to be dressed like a priest for them to recognize him- that’s just for Hollywood effects. All that said we should not let the bad things damage our view of the priesthood and understand that its existence is the will of Our Lord Jesus and that He blesses us with holy priests. They each have to work to be holy priests and not let any spiritual rust develop and many are holy priests. We can’t let some bad apples ruin it for us. Priests are a great blessing.

If I have said anything that is contrary to the teachings of the Church, please correct me.

 

[shelby_sun]

Better is such a relative term as to be somewhat meaningless, but the fact is, a Priest does not need a single other person to confect the Eucharist. And the Eucharist is the only thing that keeps Satan from essentially having free reign over the world. It is Christ among us, literally.

I would not be too quick to dismiss the essential nature of Priests or too quick to inflate the self-importance of each of us as members of the laity. Gnerally, I see little value in comparisons of this kind in terms of “who is more important” anyway.

Much like the Pope’s statement of “women are more important than Priests,” I see little value (or truth) in declaring that.

I am not trying to pass the buck here, but the point of “importance” was not an issue I brought up. You may want to read Abba’s posts as it was his concern.

 

[Brendan_64]

It then stands to reason, that it is the will of God for us to reverence, love and honor the priest as it is Jesus who provides us with priests to guide and feed us. Priests are men of God who have been empowered to guide us.

What if the priest is guiding the community towards a future of dance, drums and electric guitars at Mass? What if the priest is guiding the community to a future without kneelers, devotional candles, rosary, etc? What if the priest is guiding the community to a future where laity led services replace Holy Mass? Should we follow him because he is the priest who has been empowered to guide us?

 

[Elizabeth502]

What if the priest is guiding the community towards a future of dance, drums and electric guitars at Mass? What if the priest is guiding the community to a future without kneelers, devotional candles, rosary, etc? What if the priest is guiding the community to a future where laity led services replace Holy Mass? Should we follow him because he is the priest who has been empowered to guide us?

That’s a problem for his bishop.

 

[Brendan_64]

That’s a problem for his bishop.

And would you assume that there are no bishops that view things similarly?

 

[shelby_sun]

And would you assume that there are no bishops that view things similarly?

If the bishop gets complaints or see that people are leaving one parish and going to another, he take notice. He may actually agree with the priest actions, but if it is causing problems in that particular parish, usually he will move the priest to a parish better suited for him.

We had a priest from our diocese take over our parish and started saying that it was wrong for people to have so much wealth. Most of these people gave quite a bit of money, not only to the parish and school, but to other schools and charities in the city. It did not take long for those people to voice their thoughts to the bishop. Many of these people knew him personally from years of being on Catholic committees.

They had a right to be upset. They gave a great deal of time and money to Catholic causes. They sent their children to Catholic school when there were other better academic schools they could afford. Plus, they were faithfully practicing Catholics. It did not take long for that priest to be moved to another parish, a much poorer parish.

A priest also needs know and show respect to his parish community for things to work. Many people give without needing or wanting praise, but they certainly don’t want to be condemned for having the money to give.