Pope Francis: Divorced Catholics who remarry are not 'excommunicated.'

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ProVobis said:
Not possible.

One is not held responsible for the actions of their parents, according to the principles of ecumenism, among other things.
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Not true. We’re all still suffering the affects of original sin and are being held responsible for the sins of our parents, Adam and Eve.
 
From the article:

" Citing statements on the same topic by his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, the Holy Father said that the Church should reach out to help those who are in irregular marital situations, aware that there are no “simple solutions” to their problems. Although the Church cannot approve of their marriages, they are “not excommunicated, by any means,” he said, and the Church must help them.

“The Church knows well that such a situation contradicts the Christian sacrament,” Pope Francis told those assembled in Paul VI Audience Hall. The Church, he said, looks upon those in such situations with a maternal heart and “always looks for the good and the salvation of persons.”
 
SonOfMan said:
Not true. We’re all still suffering the affects of original sin and are being held responsible for the sins of our parents, Adam and Eve.
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Nope. We may feel the effects of prior sin or the sins of others, we are not held responsible for them. Children who are not baptized, but are below the age of reason and incapable of committing mortal sin, are not damned to hell. So while still having Original Sin, they are not damned for it.
 
I wonder if anyone in our times ever treats remarried as “excommunicated”… 🤷
 
chaunceygardner said:
I think this is somewhat “new” in that Pope Francis is saying that divorced and remarried
Catholics are welcome in the Church and are not excluded from God’s love, unlike the attitudes of many bishops, priests and lay people in our parishes who scorn and often verbally abuse people in that situation and try to place them “at a distance from the community”, to quote the Pope. I am aware of divorced and remarried Catholics who have been told by priests about the “pastoral option”, where they can go to Mass and receive communion at a different parish. In one case, when a priest at the new parish became aware of their situation, he did not tell the couple they could not receive.

Quite often it seems, what happens in the parish does not always comply with what the church hierarchy says should happen. I think Pope Francis is quite aware of that and is trying to bring the man-made rules of the Church in synch with the Gospel. Bless the man.
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So if as you say you are a disciple of Jesus, then:
James Chapter 19
19:3 And the Pharisees approached him, testing him, and saying, “Is it lawful for a man to separate from his wife, no matter what the cause?” 19:4 And he said to them in response, “Have you not read that he who made man from the beginning, made them male and female?” And he said: 19:5 “For this reason, a man shall separate from father and mother, and he shall cling to his wife, and these two shall become one flesh. 19:6 And so, now they are not two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, let no man separate.” 19:7 They said to him, “Then why did Moses command him to give a bill of divorce, and to separate?” 19:8 He said to them: “Although Moses permitted you to separate from your wives, due to the hardness of your heart, it was not that way from the beginning. 19:9 And I say to you, that whoever will have separated from his wife, except because of fornication, and who will have married another, commits adultery, and whoever will have married her who has been separated, commits adultery.”
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Mark Chapter 10
10:2 And approaching, the Pharisees questioned him, testing him: “Is it lawful for a man to dismiss his wife?” 10:3 But in response, he said to them, “What did Moses instruct you?” 10:4 And they said, “Moses gave permission to write a bill of divorce and to dismiss her.” 10:5 But Jesus responded by saying: “It was due to the hardness of your heart that he wrote that precept for you. 10:6 But from the beginning of creation, God made them male and female. 10:7 Because of this, a man shall leave behind his father and mother, and he shall cling to his wife. 10:8 And these two shall be one in flesh. And so, they are now, not two, but one flesh. 10:9 Therefore, what God has joined together, let no man separate.” 10:10 And again, in the house, his disciples questioned him about the same thing. 10:11 And he said to them: “Whoever dismisses his wife, and marries another, commits adultery against her. 10:12 And if a wife dismisses her husband, and is married to another, she commits adultery.”
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I Corinthians Chapter 7
7:10 But to those who have been joined in matrimony, it is not I who commands you, but the Lord: a wife is not to separate from her husband. 7:11 But if she has separated from him, she must remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband should not divorce his wife. 7:12 Concerning the rest, I am speaking, not the Lord. If any brother has an unbelieving wife, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. 7:13 And if any woman has an unbelieving husband, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce her husband. 7:14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through the believing wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through the believing husband. Otherwise, your children would be unclean, whereas instead they are holy. 7:15 But if the unbeliever departs, let him depart. For a brother or sister cannot be made subject to servitude in this way. For God has called us to peace.
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As you can see the Catholic Church does not make up rules as you asserted, instead she follows what Jesus and his Apostles teach. There is no divorce allowed, period. Unless the marriage was unlawful to begin with. Jesus leaves no leeway. Either live by HIS word or perish by HIS word. Who has ears let him/her hear.

…
 
dans0622 said:
Hello,

As far as I can tell, it was never the case that there was an automatic excommunication for divorce (in the USA).

Dan
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Maybe not, but there sure was an explosion of divorces after whatever penalty was lifted in 1970.
 
Peebo said:
I had an elderly Italian guy doing some tiling on my home a few months ago…he told me he had been excommunicated from the Catholic Church years ago because of a previous divorce and remarriage without an annulment…in fact looking online you can find that prior to 1977 divorced Catholics WERE excommunicated here in the US…

When was this changed? When was excommunicating a Catholic who had divorced stopped? By who, and why?

In 1977.

A bit of history for you…

In 1884 the Third Plenary Council of Baltimore received permission from the Holy See to impose an “automatic” excommunication on American Catholics who divorced and, without petitioning for and receiving a declaration of nullity (commonly called an annulment), remarried in a civil or other non-Catholic ceremony.

**This special penal law, applicable only in America, remained in effect until 1977 when the American bishops asked for and received Rome’s permission to drop the penalty of excommunication in these cases. Since then, American Catholics who divorce and remarry outside the Church are not excommunicated. **
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Read more: city-data.com/forum/christianity/1843685-catholic-divorce-church-funeral-believe-divorced.html#ixzz3hx0jlj6J
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Thank you, Peebo.

My mother was divorced and spent years petitioning for an annulment. They could not find her ex-husband to serve him with papers to sign. She then remarried civilly. She actually had family searching for many years.

I grew up outside of the church, but family has explained why I am a toddler in my baptism picture and why my sister is 4.

So it may not have happened to you, but it did happen to me, JurisPrudens, dans0622, prodglArchitect, ProVobis, you do not speak for everyone and you are not aware of all the abuses that faithful have had to deal with. Stop accusing people of lying when it doesn’t match your rosey-colored depiction.
 
Casilda said:
… So it may not have happened to you, but it did happen to me, JurisPrudens, dans0622, prodglArchitect, ProVobis, you do not speak for everyone and you are not aware of all the abuses that faithful have had to deal with. Stop accusing people of lying when it doesn’t match your rosey-colored depiction.
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Hello,

I didn’t accuse you of lying. I wanted to know who told you that you were excommunicated because of your parents’ marital situation, learn a bit more about it, and then tell you that the person was wrong. It doesn’t matter, then, who told you this: whoever it was, he/she was totally wrong. It would *never *have been true. It was certainly an abuse for you to be told this.

So, if I am accusing anyone of lying, it would be directed toward whomever it was who told you that you were excommunicated. I’d prefer to think that it resulted from misinformation and not deceit, though.

Dan
 
zz912 said:
Nope. We may feel the effects of prior sin or the sins of others, we are not held responsible for them. Children who are not baptized, but are below the age of reason and incapable of committing mortal sin, are not damned to hell. So while still having Original Sin, they are not damned for it.
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Your answer contradicts scripture and tradition. Moreover, you’re using the Vatican 2 interpretation, which I believe is fueled mostly by political correctness.
 
Casilda said:
So it may not have happened to you, but it did happen to me, JurisPrudens, dans0622, prodglArchitect, ProVobis, you do not speak for everyone and you are not aware of all the abuses that faithful have had to deal with. Stop accusing people of lying when it doesn’t match your rosey-colored depiction.
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Okay, but if you were truly excommunicated only on the grounds that your parents were, then I’ve learned something. Or is it something else? I myself went through an annulment process and my ex wasn’t terribly pleased (even though she remarried, I haven’t) so I’m not totally unaware of what’s going on. I’m not saying that your situation is even remotely similar, though.
 
chaunceygardner said:
I think this is somewhat “new” in that Pope Francis is saying that divorced and remarried Catholics are welcome in the Church and are not excluded from God’s love,
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I also think it may seem newer than it is because people tend to assume that mass-attendance is just for those who are going to receive communion.
 
Peter_J said:
I also think it may seem newer than it is because people tend to assume that mass-attendance is just for those who are going to receive communion.
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At English Masses it certainly seems that way.
 
SonOfMan said:
Your answer contradicts scripture and tradition. Moreover, you’re using the Vatican 2 interpretation, which I believe is fueled mostly by political correctness.
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Accepting “gay marriage” is political correctness. Not consigning unbaptized infants to Hell and entrusting them to God’s mercy is something different. Additionally, “political correctness” would seem to be an evil force that arose substantially after 1962-65.
 
I just saw the news cover this. What was said though, was that divorced and remarried couples without annulment are believed to be living in sin and are not allowed reception of communion. However Pope Francis is going to try and change that.

Is Pope Francis really going to try and change that?
 
SonOfMan said:
I just saw the news cover this. What was said though, was that divorced and remarried couples without annulment are believed to be living in sin and are not allowed reception of communion. However Pope Francis is going to try and change that.

Is Pope Francis really going to try and change that?
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No He’s not. He’s encouraging discussion on this because he’s trying to find a way to help them feel more inclusive but without compromising the dogma/sacraments.

From the Article:

" Citing statements on the same topic by his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, the Holy Father said that the Church should reach out to help those who are in irregular marital situations, aware that there are no “simple solutions” to their problems. Although the Church cannot approve of their marriages, they are “not excommunicated, by any means,” he said, and the Church must help them.

“The Church knows well that such a situation contradicts the Christian sacrament,” Pope Francis told those assembled in Paul VI Audience Hall. The Church, he said, looks upon those in such situations with a maternal heart and “always looks for the good and the salvation of persons.”
 
JerryZ said:
As you can see the Catholic Church does not make up rules as you asserted, instead she follows what Jesus and his Apostles teach. There is no divorce allowed, period. Unless the marriage was unlawful to begin with. Jesus leaves no leeway. Either live by HIS word or perish by HIS word. Who has ears let him/her hear.
…
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** “Unless the marriage was unlawful to begin with”.** I find it quite amazing how so many Catholic marriages today had defects that made them “unlawful”, allowing for an annulment (Church’s version of divorce) and remarriage. Based on that fact, and on the practice of priests who have counseled the “pastoral solution”, it appears that the Church in general has found ways around strict obedience to what Jesus says in the quoted passages.

In reference to the Church’s rules, of course it creates them, and in a quantity and attention to detail not at all present in the Gospels. And many of the faithful stress about stumbling over them, as one can see by reading such concerns and questions on these forums. In particular, we see much confusion by posters over the status of the divorced, about the annulment process, about civil marriage, about prior marriages, and about re-marriage.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Furthermore, your parents were not excommunicated. They may have been barred from the sacraments as a result of their decision to reject Church teaching on marriage, but that does not necessarily equate to excommunication.
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What is the difference between excommunication and being barred from Holy Communion?
 
JurisPrudens said:
Nothing new, so far. :hmmm:
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I think it is a huge change in Catholic teaching. For example, when Jackie Kennedy married Aristotle Onassis, there were officials in the Vatican who said that she was a public sinner. That was when Cardinal Cushing of Boston came to her defense and said that no one has the right to judge her.
 
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