Pope Francis drives a wedge between Catholic Church, GOP

[Al_Moritz]

I even think some of the European media outlets may be stunned at how loyal the American mainstream media has been to the Obama Administration and the Democratic Party.

Which European media outlets? Russian ones?

 

[FaithfulKnight]

It is a mistake to confuse secular politics with Christ’s Church. **They are quite separate. ** Secular leftists identified John Paul II and Benedict XVI with the US Republican party but this was an error. Today they are trying to present Francis as a secular socialist but this is also an error.

**Praying the pope preaches Catholicism **and stops trying to be Al Gore of the environment .

Hail Mary numerous times

added bold is mine

I believe when the Pope speaks he speaks to all Catholics throughout the world. He is shepherding his flock as the Holy Spirit guides him.
The media in this country will spin what they hear to what they think the people want to hear, the media in other countries probably do the same.

 

[estesbob]

Oh no, it’s almost like a religion founded by the Divine Logos Incarnate in the Roman-occupied Levant 2,000 years ago that now has its politically sovereign HQ located in the Italian Penninsula and holds that governments of this world are all flawed temporary placeholders for a coming Kingdom but still should be followed and respected so long as you pay to God what is His and to the worldly governments what is theirs DOESN’T believe in strictly abiding by the ideologies of the American Conservative Right!

Whodathunkit?

I am a Catholic who is also a conservative Republican. Please tell me what this Pope has said or done that differs in any way from previous popes and please tell me what he is said or done that conflicts with being a conservative Republican? Just because someone writes an article saying the Pope is driving a wedge between the Church and Republican Party doesn’t make it so .

 

[Tigg]

Actually, the republican party is in no way a conservative party. It is a big government, slightly less liberal than the democrats party. For example, the republican party supports social security and medicare, two big government welfare programs that no true conservative could ever support.

I agree that the Reps have gone quite a ways left from truly conservative values. Most glaringly is the departure from limited govt and issues involving individual freedom. Interesting to note that it has been said that traditional Catholics have much in common with paleoconservatism. Individual psyche, personality and reason do determine our politics. The liberal Catholic doesn’t like so much the idea of infallible authority and objective truth, but relies more upon his own rationale and individual opinion. Some erroneously think the Church “imposes” belief on them. Their objection I think does much to account for the popularity of this pope among the progressives (given the spin of media reports.)

 

[Phil502]

The whole thing is amusing.
I worship where I choose no matter what a political party says.
I vote how I choose no matter what a Priest says.
There can be no wedge placed between seperate issues. Sure something’s cross over but that’s life, it’s hard to draw a line everywhere.

 

[lynnvinc]

thehill.com/homenews/administration/228289-pope-francis-splits-with-gop#.VKPhCn9NteQ.twitter

Cuba, climate change, capitalism – not too surprising that the pontiff has ruffled some feathers.

The Catholic Church as ALWAYS been conservative on personal issues (sexuality, abortion, etc) and liberal on social issues…esp those in which we are harming others and those in which we are allowing others to suffer without doing anything about it.

In fact, as I was raised Protestant during the 50s, my mom used to tell us how Catholics were communists. By the 60s when I met my husband, a Catholic, and converted to Catholicism, that was one of the draws…that Catholicism was into sharing and caring.

 

[lynnvinc]

I don’t watch CNN or MSNBC, but FOX works quite hard to assess all points of view, and I think those who don’t watch FOX NEWS shouldn’t be making all sorts of rash judgements about that network. It’s also obvious they are very successful and Bill O’Reilly has even gotten to points of beating out prime-time news that is not even on cable.

I don’t watch CNN, MSNBC, or FOX – they are all handmaids of corrupt corporate interests. (I do watch ABC News for the tabloid fuzzy feeling stuff ).

If you want the real news go to Link TV, Free Speech TV, or Al Jazeera America. But only if you really want the real news, beyond what the big corporations want you to hear.

 

[Path_Finder]

Al Jazeera, they aren’t bad news but there is no way I will believe they are unbiased, besides, news is a bit subjective anyway and based on our perceptions.

If you want the real news go to Link TV, Free Speech TV, or Al Jazeera America. But only if you really want the real news, beyond what the big corporations want you to hear.

It would not surprise me if one if not all of these did not even cover the Gosnell trial, that may be comforting to those with liberal leanings but not what I call covering the news. NPR and some of the others barely covered it.

“Corrupt Business Interests”, what does this mean? Communism? And Free Speech TV? Ditto.

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Back to the story, there is no getting around that Allan Gross for whatever wrongs he did or did not do was traded for persons or a person convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, there is no way around this, this is the details of the deal with Cuba.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Five

So these details can be questioned as to whether they are humane and moral.

People flee Cuba across harsh seas to get away from Cuba, one doesn’t need to be from there to know this certainly is a negative indicator. Did people hear about this news, one day after the deal was signed?

Cuba’s Coast Guard sinks boat carrying 32 refugees who were trying to reach Fla.
en.mercopress.com/2014/12/20/cuba-s-coast-guard-sinks-boat-carrying-32-refugees-who-were-trying-to-reach-fla.

There was even a surge of persons trying to get out when this new treaty was signed.

And when that oppressive so-called fascist regime ruled in Argentina, did Father Jorge Mario Bergoglio protest it? Some say little was said in Buenos Aires. The fact that that regime was so iron-fisted and who may have backed coups back then, could have a bit to do with the Pontiff’s outlook.

 

[ProVobis]

I am a Catholic who is also a conservative Republican. Please tell me what this Pope has said or done that differs in any way from previous popes and please tell me what he is said or done that conflicts with being a conservative Republican?

The expressed and/or perceived priorities seem to be the main concern as far as I can tell. But I couldn’t tell you exactly what they are.

 

[FollowChrist34]

In fact, as I was raised Protestant during the 50s, my mom used to tell us how Catholics were communists. By the 60s when I met my husband, a Catholic, and converted to Catholicism, that was one of the draws…that Catholicism was into sharing and caring.

Yes, this is true. I have Protestant friends who think Catholics are socialists. Of course the whole USCCB/ACA/religious liberty thing hitting the press did help undermine that stereotype. The Pope, however, is getting me back into a little trouble though… You would have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to see that personally he is a liberal. The question remains how much will that affect his pontificate. My guess is he’ll do his job, i.e., stay “conservative” on the so-called moral issues, abortion, gay marriage, etc. and stick his neck out for the most liberal reading possible of social teaching - prioritizing equality and care for the poor in economic systems, environmental concerns, etc. In the end, pretty close to what Jesus would do…whether we like it or not as “conservatives” or “liberals.”

 

[Vouthon]

Yes, this is true. I have Protestant friends who think Catholics are socialists. Of course the whole USCCB/ACA/religious liberty thing hitting the press did help undermine that stereotype. The Pope, however, is getting me back into a little trouble though… You would have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to see that personally he is a liberal. The question remains how much will that affect his pontificate. My guess is he’ll do his job, i.e., stay “conservative” on the so-called moral issues, abortion, gay marriage, etc. and stick his neck out for the most liberal reading possible of social teaching - prioritizing equality and care for the poor in economic systems, environmental concerns, etc. In the end, pretty close to what Jesus would do…whether we like it or not as “conservatives” or “liberals.”

I think that you have summed up his approach, attitude and strategy rather well

 

[Path_Finder]

Yes, this is true. I have Protestant friends who think Catholics are socialists. Of course the whole USCCB/ACA/religious liberty thing hitting the press did help undermine that stereotype. The Pope, however, is getting me back into a little trouble though… You would have to be blind, deaf and dumb not to see that personally he is a liberal. The question remains how much will that affect his pontificate. My guess is he’ll do his job, i.e., stay “conservative” on the so-called moral issues, abortion, gay marriage, etc. and stick his neck out for the most liberal reading possible of social teaching - prioritizing equality and care for the poor in economic systems, environmental concerns, etc. In the end, pretty close to what Jesus would do…whether we like it or not as “conservatives” or “liberals.”

Somewhere along the line, the Pope and Church teaching may have to differentiate between countries, I don’t see how teaching can be one size fit-all. What works in Mexico won’t necessarily work in the USA and vice-versa. We have a duty to care for the poor. Some social programs seem to do more harm than if free-enterprise was creating jobs. All of the poor should be cared for.

 

[FollowChrist34]

Somewhere along the line, the Pope and Church teaching may have to differentiate between countries, I don’t see how teaching can be one size fit-all. What works in Mexico won’t necessarily work in the USA and vice-versa. We have a duty to care for the poor. Some social programs seem to do more harm than if free-enterprise was creating jobs. All of the poor should be cared for.

Agreed. The Pope definitely works from a South American mindset. There ARE cultural differences. I hope he doesn’t want to tell each country how to run its economic system; I doubt it. He probably, like Jesus, is just trying to shake up people’s perspective; make them look at things through the teaching of Jesus alongside their culturally induced values, environment. He just wants people to *bend *here and there, both sides really. I would love to see liberal Catholics say that homosexuality is a disordered condition; you think that will happen? Or that abortion is murder? Doubt it. Everybody has pet issues, not just the right and economics, free market (Mammon), regulations, taxes, environmental concerns, etc.

 

[Ositokc]

hmm, the Pope asking for compassion for all people, gay and straight, believing in the reality of climate change, and suggesting all people, including Atheists can get to Heaven?

Hmm, of course this would drive a wedge between the GOP, but thankfully it is uniting the rest of the world, especially young people, and giving them a wonderful breath of fresh air.

His kindness, his tone, and his beautiful messages of peace, acceptance, tolerance and kindness are definitely changing the world, and the way the world looks at the Catholic Church. Which is a great thing.

 

[FollowChrist34]

His kindness, his tone, and his beautiful messages of peace, acceptance, tolerance and kindness are definitely changing the world, and the way the world looks at the Catholic Church. Which is a great thing.

Just fyi, to flesh this out a little more, you can find good support for all of the above in Scripture and also the Magisterium, vibrant, alive and true long before our buddy Francis hit the scene. Alive and well under our good friends JP II and Benedict, for example (and pretty much the same, even boringly so)…

Welcome to the beauty and truth of the Catholic Church.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Just fyi, to flesh this out a little more, you can find good support for all of the above in Scripture and also the Magisterium, vibrant, alive and true long before our buddy Francis hit the scene. Alive and well under our good friends JP II and Benedict, for example (and pretty much the same, even boringly so)…

Welcome to the beauty and truth of the Catholic Church.

True, but the difference is how the message is brought to the World.

Pope John Paul II did a good job, Pope Benedict XVI, not so good.

Pope Francis is sending to the world, all are welcome, come. hear and see the good news…

In this, he’s batting a thousand on the PR scale.

Give it time however, he’ll soon be hated by the world, which is the case for anyone who shows love and compassion for all.

Jim

 

[shelby_sun]

Just fyi, to flesh this out a little more, you can find good support for all of the above in Scripture and also the Magisterium, vibrant, alive and true long before our buddy Francis hit the scene. Alive and well under our good friends JP II and Benedict, for example (and pretty much the same, even boringly so)…

Welcome to the beauty and truth of the Catholic Church.

Sorry, but under Benedict many Catholics took evangelizing to mean point out other sins and telling them if they do not repent they are going to hell, leading to a much more negative view of the Church. Now I do not think Benedict preached for people to say that, but there are several posters on this site that have said exactly that.

I always find it interesting when someone has a problem that maybe, just maybe a non Catholic may get to heaven. A good loving Catholic would be happy and welcome that person into heaven, if they themselves received the grace to get in. They are many that want to focus on the punishing God rather than one the loving God portrayed in the Bible. If you were ever bored, that is on you not them.

 

[FollowChrist34]

True, but the difference is how the message is brought to the World.

Pope John Paul II did a good job, Pope Benedict XVI, not so good.

Pope Francis is sending to the world, all are welcome, come. hear and see the good news…

In this, he’s batting a thousand on the PR scale.

Give it time however, he’ll soon be hated by the world, which is the case for anyone who shows love and compassion for all.

Jim

I think a lot of Francis’ popularity is because of the media support and even sometimes deliberate mishandling of his statements - on a pretty superficial level. I agree with you that that appeals more than Benedict to those who are secular or not sympathetic to the Church for whatever reason. But I think even with a basic knowledge about the teaching of the Church you quickly see the parallel between Francis and the former Popes, and indeed, the Church as it has always stood. There is a certain re-branding that is going on, a repackaging. I am not sure how many of those individuals are actually finding Christ in a meaningful way or just deciding that they don’t hate the Catholic Church as much as they used to because it seems to affirm their values a little more closely. I also think many so called conservatives are undergoing a lot of intense unnecessary suffering and panic.

 

[Path_Finder]

For the sake of facts, the Republican GOP platform is much closer to the Pontiff’s position on Gays than most other parties, Democratic Party, Libertarian Party and so forth.

Also, states that have voted on the issue have overwhelmingly voted against same-sex marriage, states with many Democrats such as California, 2 different times.

 

[ProVobis]

They are many that want to focus on the punishing God rather than one the loving God portrayed in the Bible.

Isn’t it better to bet on a punishing God, though? I’m thinking along the lines of Pascal’s Wager here. As well as the act of contrition itself.