Pope Francis drives a wedge between Catholic Church, GOP

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qui_est_ce said:
đź‘Ť
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So, the question is, how would you change the tax law? Would you make employer paid health insurance premiums taxable, make social security benefits fully taxable, would you get rid of IRA and 401k deductions?
 
gracepoole said:
Might want to update our knowledge of that oft-fabled 47%…

forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/09/19/the-real-truth-behind-the-47-percent-why-arent-these-people-paying-federal-income-taxes/
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A lot of people want to complain about this group, but you will never hear a concrete plan on how we should increase taxes on this group. For example, a big part of the 47% is the elderly. They often pay no taxes for several reasons, one is that a large fraction of their income comes from imputed rent, which is tax free:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imputed_rent
Second, they get highly subsidized health insurance which makes them less likely to work, same with social security. If their income is low enough their social security is not taxable. Also, we give senior citizens a higher standard deduction than the rest of the population.

So when people talk about the 47%, it is all about envy, not about raising revenue.
 
qui_est_ce said:
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Who’s gonna vote for that? We’re just kicking the can down the road.
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I would support that. I would want to start with those who pay not tax, as I think representation without taxation is a travesty of justice. I would also be willing to pay more taxes, raise taxes on the most wealthy and do everything needed to balance the budget. I believe if we had to pay as we go most of these issues would evaporate. Those who support social programs, or war, should be willing to support it with *their *taxes. Yes, there is a liberal hypocrisy of wanting programs and not wanting to pay for them. However, there is also the same hypocrisy that embraced the War on Terror but did not want taxes increased on them, or on the richest.
 
pnewton said:
I would support that. I would want to start with those who pay not tax, as I think representation without taxation is a travesty of justice. I would also be willing to pay more taxes, raise taxes on the most wealthy and do everything needed to balance the budget. I believe if we had to pay as we go most of these issues would evaporate. Those who support social programs, or war, should be willing to support it with *their *taxes. Yes, there is a liberal hypocrisy of wanting programs and not wanting to pay for them. However, there is also the same hypocrisy that embraced the War on Terror but did not want taxes increased on them, or on the richest.
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Of course, they do pay taxes. Sales tax, state income tax, FICA, Medicare, gas tax, local income tax, property taxes, etc. This is one particular type of tax that some do not pay.
 
estesbob said:
No fable about it.The article affirms the figure
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I suggest rereading it. The article most definitely does not affirm that 47% are not paying federal taxes. In fact, it estimates the number at around 17% – and that’s at the high end.
At the outset, we should dispel the myth that 47 percent of Americans pay absolutely nothing in federal taxes.
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Because all working Americans are obligated to pay payroll taxes—the money that supports Social Security and Medicare automatically withdrawn from our paychecks—the actual number of households in America paying nothing was closer to 17 percent in 2009 and, more typically, 14 percent in non-recessionary years. Obviously, if fewer people are working, fewer people are experiencing payroll tax deductions from their non-existent paycheck.
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And if we add in other federal taxes, such as the federal excise tax on gasoline, the numbers come down even further.
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And then we have to consider those who legitimately do not pay. So whom would you suggest we target first? Veterans? The elderly? The disabled? Or perhaps those who “earn so little money that policymakers have determined it counterproductive to force them to pay income taxes”?
 
Crossbones said:
Of course, they do pay taxes. Sales tax, state income tax, FICA, Medicare, gas tax, local income tax, property taxes, etc. This is one particular type of tax that some do not pay.
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I know. However, since the federal government is the largest sector of spending and these people are allowed to vote in federal elections, I believe everyone should pay some federal income tax. Participation in government must have buy in or we end up trillions in debt. Render unto Caesar" even applied to Jesus and His disciples.

Until then, I am in favor of an amendment to remove the vote in a jurisdiction from any who pay no taxes in that jurisdiction. I do not believe in representation without taxation.
 
gracepoole said:
I suggest rereading it. The article most definitely does not affirm that 47% are not paying federal taxes. In fact, it estimates the number at around 17% – and that’s at the high end.

And then we have to consider those who legitimately do not pay. So whom would you suggest we target first? Veterans? The elderly? The disabled? Or perhaps those who “earn so little money that policymakers have determined it counterproductive to force them to pay income taxes”?
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I specifically said Federal INCOME tax
 
pnewton said:
I know. However, since the federal government is the largest sector of spending and these people are allowed to vote in federal elections, I believe everyone should pay some federal income tax. Participation in government must have buy in or we end up trillions in debt. Render unto Caesar" even applied to Jesus and His disciples.

Until then, I am in favor of an amendment to remove the vote in a jurisdiction from any who pay no taxes in that jurisdiction. I do not believe in representation without taxation.
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What we really need is major federal tax reform.
 
estesbob said:
Thst would be great!
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First thing to go would be all itemized deductions. Second we tax employer paid health insurance and imputed rent. We get rid of SS and Medicare and those taxes. If we do that we can have two rates, one at 10% the other at 20%. Nobody is excessively burdened, everybody wins.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
What we really need is major federal tax reform.
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I would agree. Taxes on the poor need not be much. It only need to be enough for them to understand their political support for this person might cost them ten dollars a year instead of five, or twenty instead of ten. All it takes is a little to make people weigh the costs and consequences of actions.
 
estesbob said:
I specifically said Federal INCOME tax
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And why do you think that is? Should a family of four making $27,000 be paying federal income tax? Note that this is just a few thousand dollars over the poverty line for most assistance programs. Should we be targeting the elderly, who make up a good chunk of those not paying federal income tax?
 
pnewton said:
I would agree. Taxes on the poor need not be much. It only need to be enough for them to understand their political support for this person might cost them ten dollars a year instead of five, or twenty instead of ten. All it takes is a little to make people weigh the costs and consequences of actions.
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I don’t mean to sound flip but for many (many) in our communities, there are monthly choices made regarding paying for rent or paying for heat, paying for gas or paying for food, paying for medications or paying for childcare. I get that to many $5 or $10 sounds like “a little” but the practical reality of poverty means it’s just not there for those at the lowest economic point. That’s why their tax burden has been eliminated.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
This part I agree with you on. I highly doubt that Pope Francis even knows much about the democrats or republicans. Plus, one can be a faithful Catholic and never vote for a republican anyway.
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As long as the candidate isn’t super pro abortion like some Democrats
 
gracepoole said:
And why do you think that is? Should a family of four making $27,000 be paying federal income tax? Note that this is just a few thousand dollars over the poverty line for most assistance programs. Should we be targeting the elderly, who make up a good chunk of those not paying federal income tax?
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One of the problems is that we have a million different taxes. Why do we need a SS tax, a Medicare tax and an income tax. If we combined the three into one tax we would have few people who pay nothing. Problem solved.
 
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