Pope Francis drives a wedge between Catholic Church, GOP

[Phil502]

I suggest rereading it. The article most definitely does not affirm that 47% are not paying federal taxes. In fact, it estimates the number at around 17% – and that’s at the high end.

And then we have to consider those who legitimately do not pay. So whom would you suggest we target first? Veterans? The elderly? The disabled? Or perhaps those who “earn so little money that policymakers have determined it counterproductive to force them to pay income taxes”?

The article does not say where he got his figures from. Lets say they are true, so what, Romney never said that all of the 47 percent were people that should be paying taxes and are not. What about the people with 8 kids, no job, on welfare. Or how about the people who have a small job and take so many dependent credits that they get more money back in refunds than they even paid in.

All of that is besides the point. The government keeps increasing taxes on the middle class to pay for programs that we can not afford and they do a terrible job of containing costs while they do it. Millions are wasted in fraud, mismanagement, kickbacks and every other kind of nonsense that the government can get away with because it is difficult to effectively monitor them. Thats where the 47% comes in, more spending and not enough people paying in. Try that at your house and see how fast you end up on the street.

 

[qui_est_ce]

That is true. I have often thought that it was terribly unjust to bailout people with big adjustable rate debts with lower interest rates while decreasing the income of people who actually saved.

Exactly.

 

[powerofk]

The article does not say where he got his figures from. Lets say they are true, so what, Romney never said that all of the 47 percent were people that should be paying taxes and are not. What about the people with 8 kids, no job, on welfare. Or how about the people who have a small job and take so many dependent credits that they get more money back in refunds than they even paid in.

All of that is besides the point. The government keeps increasing taxes on the middle class to pay for programs that we can not afford and they do a terrible job of containing costs while they do it. Millions are wasted in fraud, mismanagement, kickbacks and every other kind of nonsense that the government can get away with because it is difficult to effectively monitor them. Thats where the 47% comes in, more spending and not enough people paying in. Try that at your house and see how fast you end up on the street.

And what about some large corporations who pay 0% in corporate taxes (any corporation whose headquarters is outside the US pays no federal income tax - even if their “HQ” is simply a mailbox in another country)?

 

[estesbob]

And what about some large corporations who pay 0% in corporate taxes (any corporation whose headquarters is outside the US pays no federal income tax - even if their “HQ” is simply a mailbox in another country)?

That’s not true.All companies pay US taxes on their US profits.

 

[PeopleB4Things]

The difference here is that Democrats dissent from church doctrines on issues involving intrinsic evil while Republicans disagree with prudential opinions expressed by the clergy. The latter is acceptable, the former is not.
Ender

Could you get any more derogatory, Ender? Feeling a little judgmental? One positive thing… when I read your comment, I laughed so hard, I literally sprayed the milk I was drinking all over my screen. My kids thought it was quite hilarious.

 

[estesbob]

Could you get any more derogatory, Ender? Feeling a little judgmental? One positive thing… when I read your comment, I laughed so hard, I literally sprayed the milk I was drinking all over my screen. My kids thought it was quite hilarious.

So please tell us where in the Republican Party platform is there anything that is contrary to the teachings of the church

 

[stinkcat_14]

That’s not true.All companies pay US taxes on their US profits.

Except when they play games, such as when they do a double Irish with a Dutch sandwich. Do you really think all of Apple’s profits in Ireland are due the sales of iphones there?

Personally I would scrap the corporate income tax and replace it with a VAT.

 

[Crossbones]

So please tell us where in the Republican Party platform is there anything that is contrary to the teachings of the church

Platforms are not good indicators on how a party would govern in power. The Republican Party platform in 2000 advocated 4 Constitutional Amendments. Didn’t even try to pass one, including the one on a balanced budget, which the Republicans did not maintain after taking power. It did not mention starting an unjust war with Iraq or torturing either.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Platforms are not good indicators on how a party would govern in power. The Republican Party platform in 2000 advocated 4 Constitutional Amendments. Didn’t even try to pass one, including the one on a balanced budget, which the Republicans did not maintain after taking power. It did not mention starting an unjust war with Iraq or torturing either.

The one area where the republicans lack credibility is in the area of fiscal responsibility. They have a narrative that democrats are big spenders but they forget to mention that they are big spenders too.

 

[Crossbones]

The one area where the republicans lack credibility is in the area of fiscal responsibility. They have a narrative that democrats are big spenders but they forget to mention that they are big spenders too.

The one area they lack credibility? I wish it was only one.

 

[phil19034]

People here keep making this claim. Where is the evidence for it? Most of the “liberal Catholics” I know aren’t naive enough to think that Francis will change Church teachings.

It’s not the “liberal Catholics” who believe the Pope will change the Church, it’s the Protestant, pagan, and/or secular media. They don’t understand how the Church really functions and those who do, spew nonsense to rile people up.

 

[zz912]

Platforms are not good indicators on how a party would govern in power. The Republican Party platform in 2000 advocated 4 Constitutional Amendments. Didn’t even try to pass one, including the one on a balanced budget, which the Republicans did not maintain after taking power. It did not mention starting an unjust war with Iraq or torturing either.

That does nothing to address the point. It is merely deflection. It is an incontrovertible fact that democrat Catholics support a party that supports intrinsic evil, while republican Catholics support a party which disagrees with prudential judgements of some bishops. One is contrary to the faith. The other is not.

Those are the facts.

 

[zz912]

Could you get any more derogatory, Ender? Feeling a little judgmental? One positive thing… when I read your comment, I laughed so hard, I literally sprayed the milk I was drinking all over my screen. My kids thought it was quite hilarious.

Stating the truth is not being derogatory. Stating the truth is necessary, and we are required as Christians to judge if something or some action is right or wrong. You need to come to terms with the fact that the DNC supports and promotes intrinsic evil, andthe GOP does not. The question to you is, are you Catholic first, or Democratic first?

 

[Ender]

"Ender:

The difference here is that Democrats dissent from church doctrines on issues involving intrinsic evil while Republicans disagree with prudential opinions expressed by the clergy. The latter is acceptable, the former is not.

Could you get any more derogatory, Ender? Feeling a little judgmental? One positive thing… when I read your comment, I laughed so hard, I literally sprayed the milk I was drinking all over my screen. My kids thought it was quite hilarious.

Help me out here - give me an example you think contradicts my statement. You may have found it amusing to read but I think you will find it difficult to refute.

Ender

 

[Ender]

The one area where the republicans lack credibility is in the area of fiscal responsibility. They have a narrative that democrats are big spenders but they forget to mention that they are big spenders too.

Apparently the worst thing about Republicans is that in some ways they are as bad as Democrats.

Ender

 

[PeopleB4Things]

So please tell us where in the Republican Party platform is there anything that is contrary to the teachings of the church

Addressing climate change is not a liberal thing; it’s a moral issue. Protecting life isn’t solely a liberal priority or a conservative priority. People with agendas try to make it out that way. They think by framing moral issues with diametrically opposed arguments, it somehow safeguards them. Their decisions are not moral or immoral. They are liberal or conservative. It’s all a game of misdirection and mirrors that we should leave those strategies to the kids with the magician kits.

Estees, try to leave the politics behind. I too sometimes get caught up in the game. It’s actually very alluring and I know it’s difficult not to go down that path. The only thing we can do it pray, get back to the work, and leave the judgment behind.

I personally don’t know a single liberal (and I know a lot) who thinks abortions are a good thing. The fact that abortion rates have declined (lowest since 1973) through efforts of many in community education/health services and thru govt programs speaks not to a liberal effort but to a moral one. If those numbers dropped like that during a conservative political period, it would be just as wonderful. It’s not about what we call ourselves. It’s about what we do and most importantly, it’s about results. Do we walk the talk or do we just sit back and complain that others aren’t doing their part? That’s the question I ask myself all the time.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Apparently the worst thing about Republicans is that in some ways they are as bad as Democrats.

Ender

The only difference between democrats and republicans is on abortion and that difference is marginal at best in many cases. In places like Massachussets, the republicans are just as pro-abortion as democrats. As far as economic policy, there is no substantive difference, with the exception that republicans like to cut taxes without paying for those cuts with spending cuts.

 

[Tigg]

The one area where the republicans lack credibility is in the area of fiscal responsibility. They have a narrative that democrats are big spenders but they forget to mention that they are big spenders too.

I quite agree with this. Government expanded during the Bush years and since then the GOP has not stayed true to an earlier ideology. They are not upholding their own platform that government be smaller (yes, it’s still in there, I just looked) and bigger government typically means an assault on the Constitution and individual freedom. Do not ever forget the Patriot Act and the NDAA (all in the name of security, of course.) This concern, however, must never take precedence over laws advocating those things no Catholic may ever support.

 

[Tigg]

I personally don’t know a single liberal (and I know a lot) who thinks abortions are a good thing. The fact that abortion rates have declined (lowest since 1973) through efforts of many in community education/health services and thru govt programs speaks not to a liberal effort but to a moral one.

I doubt it. Abortion clinics are closing because now all one has to do is take a pill.

 

[estesbob]

Addressing climate change is not a liberal thing; it’s a moral issue. Protecting life isn’t solely a liberal priority or a conservative priority. People with agendas try to make it out that way. They think by framing moral issues with diametrically opposed arguments, it somehow safeguards them. Their decisions are not moral or immoral. They are liberal or conservative. It’s all a game of misdirection and mirrors that we should leave those strategies to the kids with the magician kits.

Estees, try to leave the politics behind. I too sometimes get caught up in the game. It’s actually very alluring and I know it’s difficult not to go down that path. The only thing we can do it pray, get back to the work, and leave the judgment behind.

I personally don’t know a single liberal (and I know a lot) who thinks abortions are a good thing. The fact that abortion rates have declined (lowest since 1973) through efforts of many in community education/health services and thru govt programs speaks not to a liberal effort but to a moral one. If those numbers dropped like that during a conservative political period, it would be just as wonderful. It’s not about what we call ourselves. It’s about what we do and most importantly, it’s about results. Do we walk the talk or do we just sit back and complain that others aren’t doing their part? That’s the question I ask myself all the time.

I assume that means you can’t answer the question.