Pope Francis drives a wedge between Catholic Church, GOP

[stinkcat_14]

From the standpoint of separating himself from the politics of any nation, I think it would be a bad thing.

Papal interference in the affairs of a nation has not had a good history.

I am not saying he does that, but suffice it to say, that is how he is being used by those who truly are anti-Republican.

I don’t think he has said anything that has specifically been against republicans. Now he may be in favor of economic policies that some republicans don’t like. On the other hand, republicans aren’t strong on having a coherent economic policy anyway.

 

[Darryl1958]

I don’t think he has said anything that has specifically been against republicans. Now he may be in favor of economic policies that some republicans don’t like. On the other hand, republicans aren’t strong on having a coherent economic policy anyway.

I don’t find Pope Francis to be a very effective communicator. Five people listening to some of his pronouncements come away with six different conclusions.

There are few specifics, but only tone.

It is fair commentary to believe that Pope Francis is anti-republican; it is also fair commentary to believe the opposite

But in general, if the question is what is wrong with a pope being anti-republican, that would mean that a pope is getting involved in the internal politics of a country. Even if Americans no longer believe that American Catholics have a greater dedication to their pope than to their country, in general, it has never turned out well when popes have intruded into the politics of a nation.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I don’t find Pope Francis to be a very effective communicator. Five people listening to some of his pronouncements come away with six different conclusions.

I am not sure how much is communication skills and how much is skills of his translators. He has said little in english, so it is really difficult to judge his skill as a communicator in english.

 

[Darryl1958]

I am not sure how much is communication skills and how much is skills of his translators. He has said little in english, so it is really difficult to judge his skill as a communicator in english.

There has never been an English pope.
Or if there has been, for sure he spoke Latin.

World leaders, and especially world leaders whose sole claim to authority and power rests on the words that they communicate, must be in control of the kind of message that that are conveying. They must know their audience, and if that is a global audience, they must place around them resources that they trust to project the meanings that they intend to convey.
I guess what I am trying to say that the comes a point in every carpenters career where he needs to stop blaming the hammer for all the bent nails.

 

[Yeoman]

There has never been an English pope.
Or if there has been, for sure he spoke Latin.

World leaders, and especially world leaders whose sole claim to authority and power rests on the words that they communicate, must be in control of the kind of message that that are conveying. They must know their audience, and if that is a global audience, they must place around them resources that they trust to project the meanings that they intend to convey.
I guess what I am trying to say that the comes a point in every carpenters career where he needs to stop blaming the hammer for all the bent nails.

Pope Adrian IV was English. 1154 to 1159.

 

[Darryl1958]

Pope Adrian IV was English. 1154 to 1159.

For sure, he spoke Latin.

 

[graciew]

There has never been an English pope.
Or if there has been, for sure he spoke Latin.

World leaders, and especially world leaders whose sole claim to authority and power rests on the words that they communicate, must be in control of the kind of message that that are conveying. They must know their audience, and if that is a global audience, they must place around them resources that they trust to project the meanings that they intend to convey.
I guess what I am trying to say that the comes a point in every carpenters career where he needs to stop blaming the hammer for all the bent nails.

The difference I find with world leaders, Darryl, and this I do have continuously in my mind when it comes to Pope Francis , is that he was chosen from one day to the other. He did not make of his life a " pontificial career" .
This is what I also sort of admire from popes in general.They say " yes" and have to be " ready to go " . Wow ! I would be very scared !

 

[Darryl1958]

The difference I find with world leaders, Darryl, and this I do have continuously in my mind when it comes to Pope Francis , is that he was chosen from one day to the other. He did not make of his life a " pontificial career" .
This is what I also sort of admire from popes in general.They say " yes" and have to be " ready to go " . Wow ! I would be very scared !

The pope is at his best when he is taking aim at the stuffy and comfortable Catholic ecclesiastical classes.
This is the world that he seems to be very familiar with, and it is something that he rejects passionately.
He is an outsider to that world, by choice, and as such is the leader that the Catholic Church needs at this point in time.
We as laity may not be intimately familiar with that world, but we are well enough aware of the results of a Catholic ecclesiastical class whose first order of business was protecting themselves, and covering up their own butts.

This would not be a wedge issue for Republicans or Catholic conservatives either, by the way, although it may well be a wedge issue for certain conservative and even liberal clerics, who are no longer as comfortable as they once were.

On that issue, the one that he knows intimately and is passionate about, his message is clear enough in all languages.

 

[lynnvinc]

It could be that the GOP comes around to some of the issues Pope Francis is pushing. Just read this:
Mitt Romney Shifts His Position on Climate Change—Again
motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/mitt-romney-climate-change-shift

That’s good news for Catholic Republican voters. They can now vote for someone who accept AGW science, sees it as a serious issue, and wants to mitigate it. Just as they had the opportunity with McCain was running.

Now if we could only find a Dem candidate who is anti-abortion (there are some anti-abortion Democrats out there), or at least has some serious strategy to reduce abortions greatly.

That would make for a interesting race, and either way it would be a winner that overcomes that supposed wedge.

 

[zz912]

It could be that the GOP comes around to some of the issues Pope Francis is pushing. Just read this:
Mitt Romney Shifts His Position on Climate Change—Again
motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/mitt-romney-climate-change-shift

That’s good news for Catholic Republican voters. They can now vote for someone who accept AGW science, sees it as a serious issue, and wants to mitigate it. Just as they had the opportunity with McCain was running.

Now if we could only find a Dem candidate who is anti-abortion (there are some anti-abortion Democrats out there), or at least has some serious strategy to reduce abortions greatly.

That would make for a interesting race, and either way it would be a winner that overcomes that supposed wedge.

You won’t find a Dem candidate who is pro-life until Democratic Catholics value their faith more than their politics.

 

[Ender]

It could be that the GOP comes around to some of the issues Pope Francis is pushing.

I should surely not be alone in being disturbed at the concept of a pope “pushing” his political issues.

Ender

 

[stinkcat_14]

I should surely not be alone in being disturbed at the concept of a pope “pushing” his political issues.

Ender

What political issues is he pushing?

 

[pnewton]

What political issues is he pushing?

He is pushing moral issues. He may also have his own knowledge he relies on, and this is subject to scrutiny, but there is no doubt that his agenda is one of morality and humanity. The only wedge between him and anyone, GOP or Democrat, is when his moral teaching is not given its proper prominence or when his moral teaching is defied. If you read some of the environmental threads, you will note that most Republicans do care about our duty toward the environment. I think there is enough common interest for mutual understanding and solutions. On the other hand, the areas of sex and money tend to hold us captive to our lifestyle. We do not like to hear we need to change in these two areas.

 

[pnewton]

You won’t find a Dem candidate who is pro-life until Democratic Catholics value their faith more than their politics.

There are some. I came across one this summer.

 

[oneofmany]

Well I don’t think it is a sin to disagree with the Pope on secular things like climate change, etc. If he is making people take a second look at the Church like divorced or gays and seeing the Church is trying to help them maybe they will come back into communion with the Church. It may work or backfire when people see Church doctrines can’t change. Only God can be in control of it all anyway.

 

[lynnvinc]

While we might disagree on various environmental harms – AGW, local pollution, resource depletion, etc – despite the Holy Fathers calling on us for over 25 years to mitigate them, there is something most people can agree on: solutions, especially those that save us money.

Article about a new study: “Rooftop Solar Increases a Home’s Selling Price Across Multiple Markets” at blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/2015/01/23/rooftop-solar-increases-a-homes-selling-price-across-multiple-markets/

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/plugged-in/files/2015/01/SolarHomeSold-300x213.png

In our case we had a company install 5,000 watts of solar panels for a cost of about $8500 (after rebates), so that means our home is now worth $20,000 more…in addition to those panels saving us about $1,000 a year.

 

[SuperLuigi]

It could be that the GOP comes around to some of the issues Pope Francis is pushing. Just read this:
Mitt Romney Shifts His Position on Climate Change—Again
motherjones.com/politics/2015/01/mitt-romney-climate-change-shift

That’s good news for Catholic Republican voters. They can now vote for someone who accept AGW science, sees it as a serious issue, and wants to mitigate it. Just as they had the opportunity with McCain was running.

Now if we could only find a Dem candidate who is anti-abortion (there are some anti-abortion Democrats out there), or at least has some serious strategy to reduce abortions greatly.

That would make for a interesting race, and either way it would be a winner that overcomes that supposed wedge.

Conservative democrats need to get involved at the grassroots level. Seems to be way too much of a relaxed, conciliatory attitude at local meetings. They need to insist on real changes to that Culture of Death platform of theirs, and I think they’ve got a voice on numerous issues between blue collar workers, Black evangelicals, Orthodox Jews, Muslims and family-oriented Asian religious.

It wouldn’t kill the GOP either to have some kind of “help the environment by volunteering/free market principles” in their platform either.

 

[SuperLuigi]

In our case we had a company install 5,000 watts of solar panels for a cost of about $8500 (after rebates), so that means our home is now worth $20,000 more…in addition to those panels saving us about $1,000 a year.

See, that’s a free-market solution. The government didn’t make you do it.

I wish we had more emphasis on nuclear power.

 

[SuperLuigi]

In this article, at least, he is not quoted as blaming fossil fuel use. Maybe he does, but maybe he doesn’t.

I wonder if he really believes fossil fuel use causes negative climate changes. Certainly, in places like the Sahel and north China, climate change is man’s fault, but it has nothing to do with fossil fuels.

But maybe he does believe it’s people heating their homes, operating machinery and transporting goods and people from here to there that the world must be “saved” from, and that (like Obama/Soros) peoples’ access to those things should be made greatly more expensive and their uses straitened.

One sincerely hopes not, as such a world would be cold, poor, and grim. It is difficult to imagine any pope favoring that.

Man-made climate change is largely overrated. In fact this as a policy driver is causing considerable environmental issues and interfering in conservation projects that have millions of dollars of investment.

 

[oneofmany]

I have read and believe it is true that the whole climate change argument is put forth only to control populations. It’s like the “population bomb” put out in the 70s to make us think our world would come to an end if we went over so many people on earth.

I think we need to be good stewards of the earth but until China, India, and all the other countries get on board, there’s not much we can do about the problem anyway.