Pope Francis' first moves hint at break with past

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Is how Pope Francis choses to live out his (and only his) Petrine ministry, going to be yet another cause for division with in the Church?

Deep sigh.

Dear Lord, forgive us, your people, for our petty differences based on our personal opinions and tastes. We just have difficulty keeping on eye on you, dont we?

Have mercy, Lord, have mercy on us.

Amen
 
oldcelt said:
Personally, I would very much like to see the Pope adopt less ornate dress. Some of the trappings seen in the past look a bit…well…silly…to me. Just my view.

John
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And uncomfortable.
 
I understand they were already made. I too like some of the beauty to the mass added by the vestments. But it isn’t mandated. Considering the economic distress the world is experiencing I think it wise to also tone down the regal appearance in accordance. I think if toning down our appearance draws people to the Church that’s a good thing.
 
Marie5890 said:
Is how Pope Francis choses to live out his (and only his) Petrine ministry, going to be yet another cause for division with in the Church?

Deep sigh.

Dear Lord, forgive us, your people, for our petty differences based on our personal opinions and tastes. We just have difficulty keeping on eye on you, dont we?

Have mercy, Lord, have mercy on us.

Amen
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It worries me to think such scrutiny is placed on what he decides to wear, or live his day to day life. It seems a greater scrutiny will be placed on what he says to us. 😦
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Were all those garments a part of the Church since Christ built it? If not, when and why did they become so important?
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Jesus, God Incarnate, wore simple clothes. It is His Church.
Jesus said to St Francis, “Rebuild My Church” If now we have a Francis who will lead the Church in living the gospel in simplicity and humility, in love and service of the poor, the Jesus who washed the feet of others, then we are blessed indeed. Having read the extant works of St Francis and St Clare…having studied Franciscan spirituality…I feel at last, hope.
 
geoflo said:
My past includes Protestant–Lutheran–and Catholicism. I am just now returning home and gathering much info along the way. Interesting discussion thread and my prayer is that all events and circumspection are pointed toward Jesus. Respecting the traditions of our Church, I like the thought of “What Would Jesus Do?” I also like Our Reverend Father, Pope St. Francis, his history and his ideals. Some of our traditions, like the Ermine robe, are what separates us from our brothers and sisters in Christ because they don’t understand.
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I think that I can see both sides, I like to think that Catholics take care of their Pope, that they want him to look good in front of the world and if the garments seem a little ostentacious well, it’s okay because he is the leader of a very large group of people.
On the other hand, Pope Francis seems to be a person who moves around a lot, he knows how to use public transportation, he knows how to fix his own meals and he likes it that way. For this kind of man having to sit for long periods of time would be extremely difficult and finally, as I said before, I think he’s a man’s man and doesn’t want to dress in fine clothes. This is not a criticism of any other Pope…but I say, let him decide on his clothes, he’ll be serving us in countless ways, leave him alone as to some of these personal decisions, and if he turns from some of the old ways that doesn’t make the old ways wrong, just different from the kind of Pope he wants to be.
 
Francie3 said:
Jesus, God Incarnate, wore simple clothes. It is His Church.
Jesus said to St Francis, “Rebuild My Church” If now we have a Francis who will lead the Church in living the gospel in simplicity and humility, in love and service of the poor, the Jesus who washed the feet of others, then we are blessed indeed. Having read the extant works of St Francis and St Clare…having studied Franciscan spirituality…I feel at last, hope.
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I have a picture that comes to mind every time I think of St. Francis, and he’s not dressed elaborately.
 
Francie3 said:
Jesus, God Incarnate, wore simple clothes. It is His Church.
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17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
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White as the light clothes seem more on the spectacular side than the simple side to me.
 
The_Curt_Jester said:
It hasn’t worked for some decades. Why would it suddenly work now?
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What have they toned down to draw people? Maybe we need to tone it back more.
Matthew 20:26 But it shall not be so among you. Rather, whoever wishes to be great among you shall be your servant; 27 whoever wishes to be first among you shall be your slave. 28 Just so, the Son of Man did not come to be served but to serve and to give his life as a ransom* for many.”
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There are Catholics living in extremely poor and dire conditions should the Church leader’s reflect this?
 
Margy1948 said:
For this kind of man having to sit for long periods of time would be extremely difficult…
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I’m not exactly sure I’m getting what you’re driving at here. First, what does wearing certain things (like mozetta and the stole) have to do with cooking meals and taking buses, and second, what’s with assuming that popes just sit around if they don’t do all that stuff? I’m sure Benedict XVI had ways of occupying his time!
 
Tony2255 said:
There are Catholics living in extremely poor and dire conditions should the Church leader’s reflect this?
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Yes we should help the poor. The Church is literally the home of Christ, the Son. Literally. Literally. Every Priest touches Christ literally. How did you dress for your wedding? Every mass is bigger than your wedding because Jesus is really present.

I’m not trying to be a stubborn mule here, but there is more to this discussion than the poor. Serving the poor is necessary; serving Christ is more necessary. Thankfully they are not contradictory.

Scripture and the Church teach that forms matter. You can’t lay that aside without laying the truth aside.
 
Tony2255 said:
What have they toned down to draw people? Maybe we need to tone it back more.

There are Catholics living in extremely poor and dire conditions should the Church leader’s reflect this?
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Using certain vestments for certain ceremonies of the Church is very appropriate. Note that using them is giving the best we have for God (and in the Pope’s case, a symbol of his office as Pope), and not a glorification of the man who’s wearing them.
“For the poor you have always with you; but me you have not always.”
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I like this guy a lot from everything I have heard about him. Simple, humble, down to earth with a good sense of humor. Many people view Popes, Archbishops, and Cardinals as out of touch elitists who tell everyone else how to live and do differently themselves. I think that Pope Francis will change that view; it’s very damaging to the Church and off-putting to people who might be interested in joining it.
 
Bill_Martin said:
I like this guy a lot from everything I have heard about him. Simple, humble, down to earth with a good sense of humor. Many people view Popes, Archbishops, and Cardinals as out of touch elitists who tell everyone else how to live and do differently themselves. I think that Pope Francis will change that view; it’s very damaging to the Church and off-putting to people who might be interested in joining it.
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What he said. 😉
 
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