Pope Francis' first moves hint at break with past

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Corki said:
No, you are correct. The Holy Spirit does not directly choose the Pope nor is everything a pope says to be interpretted as coming from the Holy Spirit. Pope Benedict made this very clear. If that was the case, every conclave would have only one vote and it would be unanimous. 🙂

I don’t think we have any idea yet of the direction that Pope Francis will take or where he will take the Church. He has done lots of things that give us information about who is is as a person and what his personality may be but he hasn’t actually DONE anything yet in his *official *capacity. The first indication of “direction” will be when he makes or maintains curial appointments, makes his first choices for Bishops, and writes his first encyclicals. What we have now is a lot of interesting and entertaining guesses.
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Francis has been preparing for this “lap” for his whole life. God speed him.
 
latingirl said:
I sure hope the pope did not say that. Not only is it mean, it comes off as mocking our faith.
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why in the world do you think the Pope would mock our faith? The report is false. The Pope has the right to wear what he feels comfortable in and appropriate and how he feels God has called him in the petrine ministry.
 
Judged by his words and actions alone, Pope Francis has been a shining star for the papacy through today’s date.

My only concerns have been speculative reports about his plans for creating a “poor Church for the poor”. In retrospect, I may be giving too much credibility to unfounded reports and placing too much emphasis on one isolated statement. Pope Francis has not said he will dismantle Church infrastructure, nor liquidate Vatican assets for distribution among the global poor. Indeed, all his actions to date have been praiseworthy. I am keeping an open heart and mind to the papacy of Pope Francis.
 
Tampa_Dave said:
J I am keeping an open heart and mind to the papacy of Pope Francis.
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I think these words very significant. Looking through the comments on these threads, I feel the joy of others, but also am concerned that it’s very easy to get caught up in the moment (I’m always suspicious of high emotion.) As Scripture tells us, we are to test everything and retain only that which is good. The definition of this is discernment. Especially in these days, in what is happening within the Church, we must be on guard to protect our own faith (as truly taught by the Church) and beware of the subjective attitudes coming across on these threads, even by Catholics who profess the faith. I also believe it important that everyone continue to study and read and pray as this will keep us on track and alert us to the moral relativism that is rampant.
 
Re Posts 358 and 359:

This is why we all have to be open and receptive, as opposed to reactive or assumptive. 🙂

I do suspect that he will avoid something so alarming that it will affect the unity of the Church. He seems to be a man who is spiritually radical (which Jesus demands of us) but not “politically” or offensively radical (of course!).

We should not even among ourselves behave like the secular media, which operates on over-anticipation, adding 1 and 1 together and coming up with 5. (Then, when 5 doesn’t materialize, the media imagines and publishes a story about what happened with the missing 3 occurrences.) 😉

I think we often don’t realize how much we have become subconsciously affected by the drama cycle of modern media. (Maybe.)
 
Tigg said:
As Scripture tells us, we are to test everything and retain only that which is good. The definition of this is discernment.
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Scripture tells you to test the Church and be on the alert to disbelieve the Pope? :eek:

As sola scripturists often do, your scripture verse is out of context. “He who hears YOU, hears ME” is a more accurate POV.
 
RobbyS said:
Francis has been preparing for this “lap” for his whole life. God speed him.
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Actually he hasn’t. I said before when I man enters The Society of Jesus or The Jesuits he has no intention of becoming the Pope; in fact ten years ago it was unthinkable that a Jesuit would ever become the Pope. As almost all Jesuit, before now, their plans were to minister to the poor and needy and to be educators. This man got to his position because JP II asked him to take positions higher up in the Church than Jesuit aspire to get. He felt this is what God was calling him to do. Pope Francis obviously does not feel God is calling him to wear all the traditional garb right now.

This Pope was laughing with every Cardinal he greeted. He seemed happy and light and must have a sense of humor. I commend those here who have have chosen to find the good in what this Pope has done instead of wasting time criticizing something so unimportant in the mist of what is going on in the world and in our church. At worst he has a sense of humor some don’t like, but don’t make it more than it is.
 
Sirach2 said:
Scripture tells you to test the Church and be on the alert to disbelieve the Pope? :eek:

As sola scripturists often do, your scripture verse is out of context. “He who hears YOU, hears ME” is a more accurate POV.
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Both of these comments are unfair assumptions and accusations and I suspect you know it! Perhaps you’d like to re-read my entire post?
 
Pope Francis did not say regarding the mozetta, ‘You put it on! The carnival is over’

I said previously that I would not quote NCR again but I will this last time
**Italian Vatican writer Andrea Tornielli has been the first to use the phrase “urban legend” to describe one report that made the rounds immediately after the new pope’s debut on March 13. The story goes that when the papal Master of Ceremonies, Monsignor Guido Marini, started to place the mozzetta on Francis, he responded: “You put it on! The carnival is over.”
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The mozzetta is a shoulder-length cape of red velvet trimmed with white fur. Francis’ unwillingness to put it on, combined with the alleged brush-off of Marini, was seized upon as a sign not only of a simpler personal style, but a rejection of the liturgical neo-traditionalism some associate with the papacy of Benedict XVI.
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In light of the alleged quip, many have been predicting that Marini may be sent packing quickly back to his hometown of Genoa, in favor of a master of ceremonies less enamored of “smells and bells.”
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The only problem, Tornielli reports, is that Francis never said any such thing.
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“Francis simply said to Marini as he was putting the mozzetta on, ‘I prefer not to,’” Tornielli writes. “There was no joke about the carnival, and no humiliation for the obedient master of ceremonies.”
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No doubt, Francis will have his own touches in terms of how he dresses and how he celebrates the liturgy, and there’s already alarm in some traditionalist quarters. One report immediately after his election, for instance, suggested that implementation in Buenos Aires of Benedict’s 2007 document authorizing wider celebration of the old Latin Mass was half-hearted.
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Those debates, however, will unfold quickly enough on their own, without the help of false reports about the carnival being over.**
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ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/debunking-three-urban-legends-about-pope-francis
 
Bergoglio, Ratzinger and urban myths
The other day, a person who is very close and dear to me said: “I can’t help thinking about Benedict XVI and I can’t help feeling bad when I think of him seeing all the affection and enthusiasm that surround the new Pope…”. Knowing Ratzinger (as far as it is possible for one to really know him), it is hard to imagine him resenting the fact that his successor, Francis, is well liked by faithful and non-faithful alike. Frankly, the comments made by those who are concerned about the fondness Bergoglio inspires even in secular environments and contexts that are usually seen as being distant from the Church, appear out of place. It seems as though one cannot be truly Catholic without causing disagreements, disputes, controversies and dislike. Are the events of recent days just a “honey moon” between the new Pope and the people that is destined to end soon? We must wait and see what will happen. But we must recognise the Church’s spectacular ability to renew itself and start afresh with energy, despite the resignation of a Pope.

Francis’ first days as Pope were marked by a heavy focus on the differences between him and his predecessor. It is true that Bergoglio’s mission is characterised by a simple style, continuously breaking rigid protocol, as Wojtyla had done since the start of his pontificate. But urban myths started to circulate within the first few hours of his papacy. According to one of these rumours, straight after his election, Francis apparently refused to wear the red velvet mozzetta trimmed with (synthetic) ermine, saying to the Master of Papal Ceremonies, Guido Marini: “You can wear it! The carnival’s over.” A rude and boorish comment to make to the Master of Ceremonies. As far as Vatican Insider has learnt, said comment was never made. As Marini placed the mozzetta on Francis, the Pope simply said: “I would prefer you didn’t.” No reference was made the carnival and no humiliating comment was made against the Master of Ceremonies.

The real continuity between Benedict XVI and Francis is seen in the many gestures, hints and points of focus that have emerged in these first days of Francis’ pontificate: The day after Francis’ election, Benedict XVI said that “the Pope makes Christ’s light - not his own - shine wherever he goes. In a meeting with journalists Francis stressed that the “protagonist” is Christ, not the Pope.

Their sensitivity for the protection of creation – which humans are at the top of – and the environment is something the two popes have in common. Then there are their thoughts on careerism and “spiritual worldliness” in the Church: anyone who has listened to one of Ratzinger’s deep homilies on these issues cannot deny there is continuity between his ideas and Francis’. Only those who are not familiar with his writings on the liturgy could be led to think that they gave importance to superficial aspects. In as far as the discontinuity between Ratzinger and Bergoglio is concerned; we need to ask ourselves to what extent Benedict XVI’s collaborators helped him deliver his core message. Just as Paul VI should be rescued from certain “Montinians” who consider themselves to be the only ones authorised to keep his memory alive through their own vision of his papacy, so Benedict XVI should be salvaged from certain “Ratzingerians” who have tried on more than one occasion to teach him how to be Pope.
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RobbyS said:
Francis has been preparing for this “lap” for his whole life. .
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I don’t think that’s the case. While there are certainly careerists in the clergy, and even within the college of Cardinals, nothing I have seen so far from Pope Francis would lead me to the conclusion that he is one of them. Exactly the opposite.
God speed him
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Amen.
 
It is unlikely that Francis told the priest “carnival time is over”. More likely is he politely refused. If that is what occurred then I am one step closer to accepting Francis as the real deal to clean up a corrupt racketeering organisation that masquerades as a church.
 
shelby_sun said:
Actually he hasn’t. I said before when I man enters The Society of Jesus or The Jesuits he has no intention of becoming the Pope; in fact ten years ago it was unthinkable that a Jesuit would ever become the Pope. As almost all Jesuit, before now, their plans were to minister to the poor and needy and to be educators. This man got to his position because JP II asked him to take positions higher up in the Church than Jesuit aspire to get. He felt this is what God was calling him to do. Pope Francis obviously does not feel God is calling him to wear all the traditional garb right now.

This Pope was laughing with every Cardinal he greeted. He seemed happy and light and must have a sense of humor. I commend those here who have have chosen to find the good in what this Pope has done instead of wasting time criticizing something so unimportant in the mist of what is going on in the world and in our church. At worst he has a sense of humor some don’t like, but don’t make it more than it is.
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I should have said, BEEN prepared. No one consciously prepares to become pope, as one might prepare to become President. But he is a man in his mid-70s and what he has become is what he is.
 
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