Pope Francis : "God willed the plurality of religions"

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If God wills a person to become Catholic, God will reveal Himself in Jesus Christ and transform the person into becoming Catholic.

Religion that doesn’t help transform a person toward holiness, is useless religion,

Jim
 
I agree with that statement Jim.
 
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I think so, yes. Isn’t it self-evidently true that if there were a privileged route to salvation that it would be better to be a part of that route than any other? It’s just acknowledging that it isn’t the only route. It may be the best but not the exclusive one.
 
LateranBasilica said:
The question here is are you using your definition of the pluralism and diversity of religions, or that of the Vatican?

If you are using that of the Vatican, are you using the classical pre Vat II or that of the recognition of diversity of religion in different cultures and it’s right to respect?
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I have no problem with saying that treating people who believe errors with charity, respect, and tolerance is God’s will (it should be noted that public authority has the right and duty to repress false religious activity when it is harmful to the common good, properly understood–see CCC 2109).

Again, the problem is the document equates God’s will with regard to religious diversity to God’s will with regards to other forms of human diversity. It is not like those things, but rather where religions divert from the truth is a consequence of sin (not necessarily one which the erring person is personally guilty). We would never say, in His wisdom, God wills us to be divided by sin (what other religions possess that is good and true is considered a preparation for the Gospel, not an end in itself.). The Catechism sums up God’s actual will in this regard.
845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334
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On this trip, Pope Francis even used this same imagery–the ark that can safely navigate the stormy waters–but instead of pointing to the Church as the ark where men find true unity and peace, he came up with a new “ark of fraternity.” Again, it’s good to acknowledge the unity of the human family with reference to our common origin, but we cannot fail to acknowledge that common destiny that God wills for us all too.
 
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But at the same time, it is God’s will to lead that person to where they will be fed the best and often, it’s not in Catholicism.

Jim
 
Right but wants the route of Catholicism for all. Because he loves us.
 
Just to be clear…so do I agree with that statement.
 
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I can’t agree with that statement. Although in general your right, in the whole picture one can be saved even if another religion, but that’s not the path God wants here and now, he wants all to come to the Truthnof Jesus Christ and his Church.
 
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JimR-OCDS said:
But at the same time, it is God’s will to lead that person to where they will be fed the best and often, it’s not in Catholicism.
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God’s Church (Catholicism) teaches that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. While we take a broad interpretation of that to mean that some other faiths may have enough commonality with the Catholic Church for their members to have the possibility of salvation, God is not going to lead somebody to a non-Catholic religion. The mere existence of non-Catholic religions is due to the sins of mankind. People end up as members of them either because of their own sins, or the sins of their forebears who started the other religion, joined the other religion, and wouldn’t become Catholics instead.

I understand “God’s will” in this situation as permitting other religions to exist on earth, not wiping them out.

God does not will people to go pick a church where they will be “fed the best”. I’m not a fan of that expression because I don’t see religious practice as some passive exercise where people “get fed”; they need to take responsibility for their own spiritual development and not sit there like an open mouthed helpless baby bird.
 
Thanks, all. this makes more sense now.
Not trying to bash Papa, but rather just trying to understand things better
 
JimR-OCDS said:
If God wills a person to become Catholic, God will reveal Himself in Jesus Christ and transform the person into becoming Catholic.

Religion that doesn’t help transform a person toward holiness, is useless religion,

Jim
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This is the statement I meant to agree with.
 
From the CCC
843* The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”
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Jim
 
Whenever folks get worked up about this issue, I feel the need to quote the relevant portion of Lumen Gentium to clarify the Church’s understanding. So, here goes…
Blockquote16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126) But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Muslims, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention. LG
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Noteworthy from the above are the following: The savior wills that all be saved, the plan of salvation includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the absence of religion, conscience can provide a guide to God, and God enlightens all men for the end of giving them Life…
 
169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: “We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.” Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.
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Bold is my emphasis

Jim
 
Tis_Bearself said:
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Wannano:
if your evangelization efforts are to make people Catholics then it is in vain
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As our Catechism states that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church, our evangelization efforts are most definitely to get people to join the Catholic Church wherever possible, and if that’s not possible, to get them into as much communion with the Catholic Church as we can. It is not always “in vain” as you see right on this forum people who do convert, and I’m sure there are others converting off the forum.

We don’t go around doing fuzzy “let’s make you a new creation in Christ” stuff.

If some non-Catholic wants to still reject the Church after hearing its teaching and hopefully seeing good examples by its followers, that’s their problem, and they can take it up with the Lord.
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Hi Tis, sorry if I offended. 2 Corinthians 5:17: “Therefore, if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come.”
 
Wrong when you’re following your own will, not God’s.

Jim
 
Loving fathers do indeed want the best for their children. But, they also acknowledge that not all of their children will accept that best option, yet those children are nevertheless loved every bit as much.
 
Everyone, and that means everyone is saved through the Catholic Church whether they want to or not. Why not enter the Catholic Church now!?!
 
Outside the Church there is no salvation"

846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
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Knowledge comes to the individual through faith and faith comes from God. It is His gift to the individual. It is His revelation to the individual, however that may happen.

Jim
 
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