Pope Francis has an American problem

[kenmiller]

The Pope seems to be inclined to bring politics into the RCC with his climate change meeting in 2015 - yes problems indeed

 

[gracepoole]

The Pope seems to be inclined to bring politics into the RCC with his climate change meeting in 2015 - yes problems indeed

I doubt he sees it that way. Instead, it’s far more likely that he sees this issue as being under the purview of the Church’s social teachings, one of which is care of God’s creation.

 

[johnnyc176]

Either he was selected by god to lead his church or he wasn’t. But it’s very strange to me to hear faithful Catholics go on and on about how wrong/dangerous/liberal/radical/whatever Pope Francis is. What is it you trust in more, the infallible Pope or your own personal politics?

And when liberals in the Church come to the realization that the Pope is not a political savior but a servant of the Church that Jesus founded it will be interesting to see the reaction. Unfortunately many liberals in the Church place their political ideology before the teachings of Jesus and His Church. They look at contraception, homosexual marriage and abortion as political issues instead of sin and they look at the Holy Father as some sort of politician (instead of a servant of the Church which he correctly calls himself) that is going to veto sin. One of the Church’s missions is the salvation of souls and the identification and condemnation of sin is necessary for that mission.

 

[FollowChrist34]

And when liberals in the Church come to the realization that the Pope is not a political savior but a servant of the Church that Jesus founded it will be interesting to see the reaction. Unfortunately many liberals in the Church place their political ideology before the teachings of Jesus and His Church. They look at contraception, homosexual marriage and abortion as political issues instead of sin and they look at the Holy Father as some sort of politician (instead of a servant of the Church which he correctly calls himself) that is going to veto sin. One of the Church’s missions is the salvation of souls and the identification and condemnation of sin is necessary for that mission.

Both sides do this, ad infinitum, ad nauseam. :sad_yes:

 

[esieffe]

The very reason why the Holy Father is so successful can be summed up in two points.

1. For those who pay close attention, it is clear, so far, that he is not deviating from Church doctrine, yet he is able to wrap his message in love of thy neighbor. There are those who would prefer that he be clear about doctrine, but he will not deviate from his warm embrace for all who seek God and his Son. Good for him I say. I have no doubt he will not cave on any important doctrinal points of the Church
2. The Pope loves the poor, and is putting heavy emphasis on them, and on the point that everything we own does not belong to us, but is simply borrowed during our stay on Earth. PLEASE re-read the prayer of Saint Francis.

That Pope Francis was elected during these times is not just a boon for the CC, but for all of humanity. For me it is further proof that our Lord still plays an active role in the Church. The Pope has used strong words when needed. The doctrine of morality still stands, but let us hear some words of hope, the other side of the Christian /Catholic coin when we can. We need both love and admonishment. We get what we need when we get it. Our Lord, the Father, and the Queen of Heaven will see to it.

 

[Colorad007]

Very questionable.

This is perhaps the key question. Will the Church remain orthodox, prolife, and pro-family or not? We are being pulled in two opposite directions by different groups.

There is an entire generation of bishops, priests, and laity that are much more committed to the unerring truths of the Catholic faith than some clerics that inhabit the chancelleries and rectories of various dioceses especially in sclerotic Europe. What liberal theologians and prelates dont fully appreciate is that conservatives are the vanguard of the global Catholic future.

So you can confuse the Church’s pastoral practice for a few years until what? Until the generation of young conservative bishops and priests takeover in Rome and put an end to the confusion?

I doubt that Pope Francis is the man of the Catholic left. But even if he were, so what? We are the ones having large families, becoming priests, building the Church at the local and diocesan level, giving our lives for Christ without compromise, and ensuring a Catholic future for our families and communities.

We are the future no matter who is the bishop of Rome.

 

[ProVobis]

He seems like a good enough Christian. My guess is he would have the same tough time the rest of us do in picking a political party in any Western country these days for the exact same reasons…I am always a little happy and a little scared when either side wins or loses. Good and bad in it for the Catholic.

Right.

Maybe the better way to look at it is that Americans have 75 million Catholics or roughly 6% of the world’s Catholic population. And Hispanics can claim about 40% of that population and can easily become the majority within the next decade. Certainly the immigration issue has to be one the Pope is deeply concerned about.

 

[Colorad007]

And wheun liberals in the Church come to the realization that the Pope is not a political savior but a servant of the Church that Jesus founded it will be interesting to see the reaction. Unfortunately many liberals in the Church place their political ideology before the teachings of Jesus and His Church. They look at contraception, homosexual marriage and abortion as political issues instead of sin and they look at the Holy Father as some sort of politician (instead of a servant of the Church which he correctly calls himself) that is going to veto sin. One of the Church’s missions is the salvation of souls and the identification and condemnation of sin is necessary for that mission.

Precisely. And the blowback from the left will be ferocious and potentially crippling. We haven’t learned nearly enough from Vatican II and the fallout from the changes that occurred there.

 

[Phil502]

In matters of faith and religion I’ll listen to the Pope, in science and politics I’ll listen to his opinion and form my own. I won’t be a robot to any man, no matter what his post is, not yet anyway.

 

[SWolf]

There is an entire generation of bishops, priests, and laity that are much more committed to the unerring truths of the Catholic faith than some clerics that inhabit the chancelleries and rectories of various dioceses especially in sclerotic Europe. What liberal theologians and prelates dont fully appreciate is that conservatives are the vanguard of the global Catholic future.

So you can confuse the Church’s pastoral practice for a few years until what? Until the generation of young conservative bishops and priests takeover in Rome and put an end to the confusion?

I doubt that Pope Francis is the man of the Catholic left. But even if he were, so what? We are the ones having large families, becoming priests, building the Church at the local and diocesan level, giving our lives for Christ without compromise, and ensuring a Catholic future for our families and communities.

We are the future no matter who is the bishop of Rome.

The difference in orthodoxy between the new generation and the old is astounding. My seminarian friends all state how strong the coming generation is.

 

[SWolf]

In matters of faith and religion I’ll listen to the Pope, in science and politics I’ll listen to his opinion and form my own. I won’t be a robot to any man, no matter what his post is, not yet anyway.

As well you should. The ultramontanism shown by some is disturbing.

 

[Good_Tidings]

As well you should. The ultramontanism shown by some is disturbing.

I would contend that untramontanism used to be a problem here, but that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore.

 

[boar2roar]

I doubt he sees it that way. Instead, it’s far more likely that he sees this issue as being under the purview of the Church’s social teachings, one of which is care of God’s creation.

Oh come on. The pope has to know that its a big jab at US conservatives. Its the same as his anti death penalty, and capitalism quotes.

 

[boar2roar]

I doubt that Pope Francis is the man of the Catholic left. But even if he were, so what? We are the ones having large families, becoming priests, building the Church at the local and diocesan level, giving our lives for Christ without compromise, and ensuring a Catholic future for our families and communities.

Who’s we?

 

[boar2roar]

The very reason why the Holy Father is so successful can be summed up in two points.

1. For those who pay close attention, it is clear, so far, that he is not deviating from Church doctrine, yet he is able to wrap his message in love of thy neighbor. There are those who would prefer that he be clear about doctrine, but he will not deviate from his warm embrace for all who seek God and his Son. Good for him I say. I have no doubt he will not cave on any important doctrinal points of the Church

You can definitively make the argument that he’s championing the left wing of the church. He’s appointed liberal bishops to important positions, he’s demoted conservative cardinals, cracked down on latin Mass, put liberal proposals for the synod like accepting gays and divorce back on the table, openly questioned celibacy, proposed orthodox divorce, focused on economic issues which happen to be championed by left wing political parties, made it clear that he does not like traditional clothing and protocol , and allied himself with the liberal german cardinals.

 

[gracepoole]

Oh come on. The pope has to know that its a big jab at US conservatives. Its the same as his anti death penalty, and capitalism quotes.

The environment, the death penalty, capitalism – each of these issues is related to Church teachings. Thinking that US conservatives are at the forefront of the pontiff’s thinking at any given time seems a tad conceited.

 

[Good_Tidings]

esieffe;12617538:

The very reason why the Holy Father is so successful can be summed up in two points.

1. For those who pay close attention, it is clear, so far, that he is not deviating from Church doctrine, yet he is able to wrap his message in love of thy neighbor. There are those who would prefer that he be clear about doctrine, but he will not deviate from his warm embrace for all who seek God and his Son. Good for him I say. I have no doubt he will not cave on any important doctrinal points of the Church

You can definitively make the argument that he’s championing the left wing of the church. He’s appointed liberal bishops to important positions, he’s demoted conservative cardinals, cracked down on latin Mass, put liberal proposals for the synod like accepting gays and divorce back on the table, openly questioned celibacy, proposed orthodox divorce, focused on economic issues which happen to be championed by left wing political parties, made it clear that he does not like traditional clothing and protocol , and allied himself with the liberal german cardinals.

I see what you mean. He’s taking the Church back to a time when Jesus walked the earth.

 

[Colorad007]

I doubt that Pope Francis is the man of the Catholic left. But even if he were, so what? We are the ones having large families, becoming priests, building the Church at the local and diocesan level, giving our lives for Christ without compromise, and ensuring a Catholic future for our families and communities.

Who’s we?

Catholics who unapologetically take the teachings of the Church seriously and value fidelity to the Magisterium even when it is politically incorrect or culturally marginalizing.

We’re orthodox Catholics, in other words.

 

[Colorad007]

boar2roar;12617743:

I see what you mean. He’s taking the Church back to a time when Jesus walked the earth.

The pope can’t take us back “to a time when Jesus walked the earth” any more than the Delorian in your garage can do that. The Gospel speaks to us today, in the United States or wherever else you happen to be, in the last days of 2014. The Catholic faith isn’t an “emergent church.” It takes our own time head on and seeks to turn it towards Christ.

So any talk about “going back to the time of Christ” is pious-sounding nonsense that helps exactly nobody grow closer to our Lord, who is as much the Lord of 2015 as the Lord of 2014 and 1014 and 33 A.D.

 

[esieffe]

esieffe;12617538:

The very reason why the Holy Father is so successful can be summed up in two points.

1. For those who pay close attention, it is clear, so far, that he is not deviating from Church doctrine, yet he is able to wrap his message in love of thy neighbor. There are those who would prefer that he be clear about doctrine, but he will not deviate from his warm embrace for all who seek God and his Son. Good for him I say. I have no doubt he will not cave on any important doctrinal points of the Church

You can definitively make the argument that he’s championing the left wing of the church. He’s appointed liberal bishops to important positions, he’s demoted conservative cardinals, cracked down on latin Mass, put liberal proposals for the synod like accepting gays and divorce back on the table, openly questioned celibacy, proposed orthodox divorce, focused on economic issues which happen to be championed by left wing political parties, made it clear that he does not like traditional clothing and protocol , and allied himself with the liberal german cardinals.

I have not heard ANY of this. I don’t doubt you have seen this, but where? Where has he questioned celibacy, Latin Mass? He has talked about accepting gays, but not in conjunction with doctrinal changes, not that I have heard. Where have you seen this written or said?