Pope Francis: It is 'better to be an atheist than hypocritical Catholic'

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Escabrosa said:
An atheist lacks belief in God, it’s not so much a rejections. There are many who may very well want to believe, but simply can’t rationally accept the idea of God. To act as if you did would be hypocritical. I know, I was one of them.
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I know a lot of atheists who were raised Christian but now totally despise the idea of God. It’s more than a lack of belief.
 
Origen52 said:
Isn’t it scandal when the church keeps allowing politicians who openly support all abortions, including late term abortions, to go to communion? What about allowing those living in openly adulterous situations to fully participate in the church, including going to confession without the intent of stopping the sinful activity?

I know someone will say, who are we to judge. If we can’t judge people in sexual sin, why are we, or in this case, the Pope allowed to judge those in monetary sin? in a church whose attendance at mass barely hits 35 %, I don’t think anyone goes to mass as a hypocritical act. Who would they be trying to impress?
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We can judge actions.
 
JHC said:
I know a lot of atheists who were raised Christian but now totally despise the idea of God. It’s more than a lack of belief.
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Yes, there are those, but I wouldn’t pigeonhole most atheists in to that stereotype. I have friends and family members who are atheist and most don’t give it a second thought. It would be like despising the idea unicorns or Santa Claus. To them, there’s no point. They might however dislike persistent proselytizers, so I make subtle hints every now and then and try not to get carried away.
One of my sons works at a Catholic Prep School and gets along with the clergy there. He even met our Diocesan Bishop and thinks he a good guy. He’s been interested lately so maybe he’ll come around.
 
oldcelt said:
I like Francis…a true servant’s heart.
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I think he’s right. Follow your conscience is what he’s getting at.

I’m glad he’s speaking out this, because we have a real problem with double standards in many churches.
 
PluniaZ said:
What are you talking about? Please read the Vatican news article on this and come back to us:

news.va/en/news/pope-dont-put-off-conversion-give-up-a-double-life
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*How many times have we heard – all **of us, around the neighbourhood and elsewhere **– ‘but to be a Catholic like that, it’s better to be an atheist.’ It is that, scandal. You destroy. You beat down. And this happens every day, it’s enough to see the news on TV, or to read the papers. In the papers there are so many scandals, and there is also the great publicity of the scandals. And with the scandals there is destruction.”

*The media reports of this were very misleading. Thanks.
 
buffalo said:
*How many times have we heard – all **of us, around the neighbourhood and elsewhere ***– ‘but to be a Catholic like that, it’s better to be an atheist.’ It is that, scandal. You destroy. You beat down. And this happens every day, it’s enough to see the news on TV, or to read the papers. In the papers there are so many scandals, and there is also the great publicity of the scandals. And with the scandals there is destruction.”

The media reports of this were very misleading. Thanks.
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No problem. news.va is the first site I check whenever I see an inflammatory headline about the Pope in other media outlets.
 
Too many ‘Catholics’ over the last half century have been hypocritical and put their own careers and wants ahead of the gospel. Too many have embraced a secular universalist approach who would criticise the church and wish to undermine its traditional values in the name of other more ‘modern’ faiths.

In that, the pope is right to criticise such actions and motives.

It has created such scandal in the church.

It has been completely hypocritical and must no longer be tolerated.
 
No, hypocrisy is not simply acting contrary to your beliefs, it is knowingly acting as if you are righteous when you are not. The word hypocrite in Greek means actor. Christ accused the scribes and pharisees of being hypocrites because they pretended to be righteous when they were evil. Christ did not accuse all other people of being hypocrites. Not everyone is a hypocrite, and not everyone is a sinner, because in scripture the word sinner refers to people who live gravely sinful lives, not to anyone who commits any kind of sin.
 
Some atheists are big hypocrites. They criticize Christians who abide by and support natural law morality, accusing them of supposed moral failings and hypocrisy without any sound reasons. They present themselves as humanitarians and think that they have a higher morality than what the Church teaches, even as they support the murder of children, sodomy, fornication, the suppression of fertility, killing sick and elderly people in the name of compassion, eugenics.
 
"Don’t believe the headlines!

Have you heard the news that Pope Francis preached it was better to be an atheist than a hypocritical Catholic? It’s in the headlines from Reuters, CNN, The Guardian, and many others.

There’s only one problem: that is not what he said. They’re all wrong.

From Vatican Radio itself, here is what Pope Francis actually said, in context:

“But what is scandal? Scandal is saying one thing and doing another; it is a double life, a double life. A totally double life: ‘I am very Catholic, I always go to Mass, I belong to this association and that one; but my life is not Christian, I don’t pay my workers a just wage, I exploit people, I am dirty in my business, I launder money…’ A double life. And so many Christians are like this, and these people scandalize others.

“How many times have we heard – all of us, around the neighborhood and elsewhere – ‘but to be a Catholic like that, it’s better to be an atheist.’ It is that, scandal. You destroy. You beat down. And this happens every day, it’s enough to see the news on TV, or to read the papers. In the papers there are so many scandals, and there is also the great publicity of the scandals. And with the scandals there is destruction.”

You see that he is not saying that it’s better to be an atheist than a hypocritical Catholic. Rather, he is saying that this is something other people say when confronted with hypocritical Catholics."

churchpop.com/2017/02/23/no-pope-francis-did-not-say-its-better-to-be-an-atheist-than-a-bad-catholic/
 
abucs said:
Too many ‘Catholics’ over the last half century have been hypocritical and put their own careers and wants ahead of the gospel. Too many have embraced a secular universalist approach who would criticise the church and wish to undermine its traditional values in the name of other more ‘modern’ faiths.

In that, the pope is right to criticise such actions and motives.

It has created such scandal in the church.

It has been completely hypocritical and must no longer be tolerated.
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👍👍

Exactly, I see this at my parish all the time, so many people want the best of both worlds, they want to be able to call themselves catholic or christian, but they also want to be a successful, model citizen in the secular world…sorry, but its impossible to be both of those at once.

As Ive said before, If you find your life is fairly easy and comfortable (myself included too), its likely you are compromising your beliefs. (going along to get along).
 
mikekle said:
👍👍

Exactly, I see this at my parish all the time, so many people want the best of both worlds, they want to be able to call themselves catholic or christian, but they also want to be a successful, model citizen in the secular world…sorry, but its impossible to be both of those at once.

As Ive said before, If you find your life is fairly easy and comfortable (myself included too), its likely you are compromising your beliefs. (going along to get along).
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Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you want to phrase it, the cozying up of the parish hall to the secular world has failed badly.
There are people waiting in the wings to revive an authentic Catholicism that does not shrink from itself under pressure from the world around it.

We have wonderful woman running RCIA who is passionately Catholic and would make a great pastoral associate, but the parish staff culture will not have it. She does not have the right degree from the correct (liberal) ministry extension program.

The intolerance of the “tolerant” is suffocating.
 
mikekle said:
👍👍

Exactly, I see this at my parish all the time, so many people want the best of both worlds, they want to be able to call themselves catholic or christian, but they also want to be a successful, model citizen in the secular world…sorry, but its impossible to be both of those at once.

As Ive said before, If you find your life is fairly easy and comfortable (myself included too), its likely you are compromising your beliefs. (going along to get along).
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Nonsense! There is nothing wrong with success or money–it is how we use those blessings that matter. If we are rich and turn away from helping the poor, that is a very un-Christian thing to do. If we are highly successful, and yet never spend time in prayer or never spend time with our families, or we never even attempt to help the poor and needy, those are indeed indications of a person who needs a fuller conversion.

I am sick of the bashing of Catholics/Christians who do their best. Raising families, putting their kids in Catholic schools, going to Mass, saying their rosaries, and helping others when they can–those are the very people we should be encouraging. As much as every person is called to be on fire for the Lord, it is not always possible–this remains a difficult world and living a life of faith with all that surrounds us is not easy. When we see people go to regular Mass, and doing the others things they are called to do–again, they should be applauded even if they are not exhibiting an enormous fire for the Lord.

As for the thread topic, the Bible makes it stunningly clear that without faith, it is impossible to please God. IMPOSSIBLE!
 
abucs said:
Too many ‘Catholics’ over the last half century have been hypocritical and put their own careers and wants ahead of the gospel. Too many have embraced a secular universalist approach who would criticise the church and wish to undermine its traditional values in the name of other more ‘modern’ faiths.

In that, the pope is right to criticise such actions and motives.

It has created such scandal in the church.

It has been completely hypocritical and must no longer be tolerated.
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Agreed, but isn’t Pope Francis contributing to this from a different angle by giving a nod to liberation theology?
 
I might have agreed with this headline, but hey, who am I to judge? We should tell these people about God’s mercy shouldn’t we?
 
Escabrosa said:
Agreed, but isn’t Pope Francis contributing to this from a different angle by giving a nod to liberation theology?
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How has he done that? In most cases including this one, it has been misreported and twisted especially by non-Vatican media. Changing the whole meaning by excluding the most important part. He didn’t say what is being reported.

Those who accuse and then are now found to be wrong better think of an explanation for their willingness to believe the worst without investigating the truth. Not for us but for when Christ asks them why they were willing to believe the worst about his Vicar. :tsktsk:

My Priest has said “When you accuse the Pope you better be 100% sure without a doubt that you are right, especially if you are a Catholic.”
 
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