A
agnes_therese
Guest
Such a terrible, terrible thing, to be invited to visit another religion’s place of worship and learn about them.
- Status
M
McCall1981
Guest
Well, to me, this event seems to inherently carry the possibility of an off-the-cuff remark or gesture causing damage by relativizing the Catholic faith with Judaism and Islam. So far, nothing like that seems to have happened, so I am very grateful for that.
C
comrade1789
Guest
Well, one thing I don’t like is that every time an inter-faith prayer event happens with Muslims, they always get to insert their theological jab in the process. In the Muslim prayer at the Vatican (probably not the first to happen there since the Muslim sack of Rome in 843), it was prayed: “we testify that there is no god but You alone and You have no partner.” This is their way of saying that the Holy Trinity is bunk, especially the claim that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate. Pope Francis wrote some disinformation in his Apostolic Exhortation Evangelii Gaudium (esp. 253) regarding Islam and the Qu’Ran, possibly based on how he wishes the truth was, rather than what it really is. It is no wonder that while Archbishop he criticized publicly Pope Benedict’s Regensburg Lecture. So its fair game, he opened the door and set precedence for being able to criticize the sitting Pope’s stance on Islam. God bless him, but I am getting kinda wearing of his apologists having to perform some serious contortions in order to make many of his comments, writings and actions fit. While the “ultra-trads” are way off mark with their detractions of Pope Francis, the apologists’ mushy explanations and gushing reviews of a man they all but claim walks on water is getting pretty old as well. I suggest Pope Francis start getting a better perspective by learning from Benedict’s chief Islamologist and his fellow Jesuit, Fr. Samir Khalil Samir before writing, doing or saying anything further regarding Islam. Francis is being taken for a fool, and it can’t all be blamed on his advisors, his writers, his translators, the media, the language barrier etc. Sometimes we just have to take a man at his words, and believe he means exactly what he says.
For those interested, if you don’t have the time to read Robert Reilly’s book, Closing of the Muslim Mind, I suggest listening to his two lectures for the Institute of Catholic Culture on the subject:
instituteofcatholicculture.org/the-closing-of-the-muslim-mind-how-intellectual-suicide-created-the-modern-islamist/
For Fr. Samir Khalil Samir’s critique of Evangelii Gaudium:
catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/father-samir-khalil-samir-s-j-gives-us-a-frank-critique-of-evangelii-gaudiums-approach-to-muslims/
crisismagazine.com/2014/evangelii-gaudium-on-islam-outreach-or-overreach
For those interested, if you don’t have the time to read Robert Reilly’s book, Closing of the Muslim Mind, I suggest listening to his two lectures for the Institute of Catholic Culture on the subject:
instituteofcatholicculture.org/the-closing-of-the-muslim-mind-how-intellectual-suicide-created-the-modern-islamist/
For Fr. Samir Khalil Samir’s critique of Evangelii Gaudium:
catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2014/01/14/father-samir-khalil-samir-s-j-gives-us-a-frank-critique-of-evangelii-gaudiums-approach-to-muslims/
crisismagazine.com/2014/evangelii-gaudium-on-islam-outreach-or-overreach
N
Nadroj
Guest
It is quite a indication of the sign of the times if people truly see nothing wrong with this. Is this something the Apostle would have done? Would they really have gone to pagans and prayed alongside them while they prayed to their beliefs? Christ is the only way for peace and by not defending that importance it will not bring forth peace but rather war. Islam is antichristian and the rest deny the messiah. I find it interesting that so many catholics don’t truly fathom or have any suspicion that what is in the book of revelation shall happen in their lifetime. It’s not like it is going to be so easy to see either, it is going seem like peace is being made, just like with all the stuff going on in america with the president and allowing same sex marriage, etc, as all religions come together, the work of devils would only seem like peace in order to bring forth corruption.
J
Jon_S_1
Guest
Perhaps you should read your New Testament. The early Christians prayed with, worshiped with and celebrated the feasts if Judaism.
Islam came later of course, but they believe in one God, the God who made a covenant with Abraham, as such we worship the same God, even though the others greatly miss the mark.
J
Jon_S_1
Guest
I as a Catholic can completely affirm that prayer.
There is one God, he has no partner.
The Trinity is not 3 Gods, but one God.
To say Jesus is Gods partner is what is really missing the mark!
But regardless. Even if all 3 prayers were full of jabs. This was not about religious unity. It was about secular unity with secular leaders. The religious leaders were brought on for a prayer and then it was back to the business if secular peace talks to a region full of war.
As such, it is beyond appropriate for all to consult their a God and humbly submit before negotiating and discussing.
H
Holly3278
Guest
I am very happy that they are having this peace summit and I sincerely hope that it helps to bring about significant progress in achieving peace in the Middle East.
D
DeaconsSon87
Guest
Another reason why I miss Pope Benedict…his Regensburg lecture hit the nail on the head.
And didn’t Pius XI say in Mortalium Animos that this kind of thing was NOT allowed?
And didn’t Pius XI say in Mortalium Animos that this kind of thing was NOT allowed?
F
foofydo
Guest
I am sad for the ones that think this is a good thing…even my 83 yr old grandma can see it. Open your bibles…pray for your eyes to be open…watch the news…we are in the endtimes whether you like it or not. I pray you ask Jesus to forgive you and be ready…he’s coming
C
comrade1789
Guest
It is a nice gesture on your part, but any cursory search of Muslim commentary on the subject of God having no partners shows clearly they mean denial of Trinity and denial of Incarnation.
R
ringil
Guest
I’d rather my child visit a mosque than a Protestant Church.
It is important to learn about world religions- especially within the context of Catholic School- where our children learn about the True Faith in Jesus Christ.
R
ringil
Guest
If you are Catholic, and most especially a layman, you should have no problem with what your spiritual father does. We are to trust the Pope and cling to him- not cast aspersion, critique, and negativity towards him.
He is the Rock which Christ has given us.
R
ringil
Guest
Are you Catholic?
If you are then you would, hopefully understand, that it is not the place of the laity to disparage the Holy Father.
R
ringil
Guest
I find your post inappropriate. One could even say it is sinful to disparage the Pope as you have done.
And it is allowed as the Pope did it.
M
Maria65
Guest
Seriously? The pope is not infallible in everything he says and does. Only in matters of dogma.
Muslim prayers being said at the Vatican - perhaps this is the sign that I should leave the Catholic Church and return to the Orthodox.
J
Jon_S_1
Guest
No actually he is infallible on matters of faith and morals. That is a much wider net than dogma.
Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew was there too participating so not sure the Orthodox see it the way you do either.
Is it your opinion that when the Pope invites two secular leaders who are at war and in conflict to a garden to discuss peace that a prayer should not be said by any of those people?
What better way to start a diplomatic mission than for all involved to pray to their God.?
What a symbol of peace and cooperation for members of warring religious states to pray together and show tolerance for each other?!
It is highly concerning that xenophobia seems to be an epidemic in our church based on this thread.
M
Maria65
Guest
Not xenophobia - some of us understand more about Islam than you.
And Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew does not speak for all Orthodox.
H
HCTC
Guest
If you believe that prayer works - and I know that prayer works – then you will find hope and joyfulness in our Holy Father praying for peace with people of other faiths who have been at war with each other for a very long time. We should trust in The Lord with all our heart and pray for peace along with them.
“To have peace one must have courage - far more courage than to engage in war.”
“To have peace one must have courage - far more courage than to engage in war.”
G
guest232
Guest
It seems to me that there are a lot of people coming to these Catholic forums searching for answers and or just to discus concerns. I find it highly concerning that you so flippantly disregard so many of these questions and concerns and end with either calling names or making false accusations. To say people are xenophobic because they question or have concern about things transpiring in our world and the Catholic church and with our Pope and then brush them off as a joke or troll is highly concerning and offensive to me. It is very off putting and will absolutely drive many away from the Catholic church and doctrine if this is how questions and concerns are treated. And there may very well be many who have come here as a last try before leaving the church. You may laugh off the idea that any of our neighbors who happen to be Muslim could absolutely be Islamic jihadists or learning and being trained to be, that is your right. There are many people who know about the many Muslims from the U.S. who ARE Islamic jihadists and HAVE murdered, slaughtered or caught in their plots to do so. They DID attend Mosques here in our neighborhoods. They DO live among us. They (most) DID grow up in the U.S. some are citizens, some were born and raised here. Some are Caucasian from an average American family, born and raised. We also have had incidents of honor killings of family members, slaughter on our military base in the name of Allah and such other acts here in the U.S. - and abroad. We have a president parading a sympathizer on tv who has very openly sided with their cause. Other countries ARE being taken over by Islamists as it IS there mission to do so around the world. Now our Catholic churches are telling their congregations to go to Mosque and to celebrate their religious holidays with them and our Pope is joining with Muslim leader in allowing Muslim prayer in the name of Peace. It IS all very concerning, if not disturbing, and it is scary and people SHOULD be questioning. So please get off your condescending high horse and let people discus their concerns. It may shine more wisdom if you educate yourself more about Islam, their culture, their grooming and dress what it means, what certain gestures mean and the language they use. What the QuRan says and who wrote it, how it is used and how the people who practice what it instructs, may also help.
R
Robert_Bay
Guest
MODERATOR NOTICE
Please charitably discuss the issues NOT each other.
You may charitably disagree with the politics of a member of the Catholic clergy but do not question their faith. More information on this topic can be found here.
As Fr. Gorndon said in a recent post, “Sometimes we can think that we know more than we do and that leads us to make assumptions which could be incorrect. While having questions and seeking answers, we still need to trust that the Holy Spirit is who is guiding the Church. Put your mind at ease and trust in God to guide His Church.”
Uncharitable remarks towards anyone are not tolerated at CAF
Please charitably discuss the issues NOT each other.
You may charitably disagree with the politics of a member of the Catholic clergy but do not question their faith. More information on this topic can be found here.
As Fr. Gorndon said in a recent post, “Sometimes we can think that we know more than we do and that leads us to make assumptions which could be incorrect. While having questions and seeking answers, we still need to trust that the Holy Spirit is who is guiding the Church. Put your mind at ease and trust in God to guide His Church.”
Uncharitable remarks towards anyone are not tolerated at CAF
- Status