Pope Francis names four great Americans

[christofirst]

4029tv.com/politics/urgent-pope-francis-names-four-great-americans/35458200

Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton.

Four of my heroes too

I notice the applause from congress during the Pope’s address was often partisan, as usual, and not particularly strong when he named those four.

 

[Songcatcher]

4029tv.com/politics/urgent-pope-francis-names-four-great-americans/35458200

Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton.

Four of my heroes too

I notice the applause from congress during the Pope’s address was often partisan, as usual, and not particularly strong when he named those four.

Mine, too! Dorothy Day is a particular hero of mine. (Love the diamond ring story.)

It was a great speech. I love this Pope so much.

 

[christofirst]

Mine, too! Dorothy Day is a particular hero of mine. (Love the diamond ring story.)

It was a great speech. I love this Pope so much.

I am in awe of Dorothy Day, when I consider all she did. I am a particular devotee of Merton, myself. What most strikes me about his choice is that all four, especially King, Day and Merton, had what we Catholics would consider “checkered pasts,” areas of their lives very much in need of God’s forgiveness and mercy, a theme apparently dear to our Holy Father’s heart. Yet, they were able to overcome these “flaws” and weaknesses (common to most of us), and accomplish much good.

Great speech indeed!

 

[philipl]

4029tv.com/politics/urgent-pope-francis-names-four-great-americans/35458200

Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton.

Four of my heroes too

I notice the applause from congress during the Pope’s address was often partisan, as usual, and not particularly strong when he named those four.

WOW, all of them supported strong authoritarian values. It is well documnet that Linclon would have people arrested that disagreed with him.

You can tell the leaning of a person by those they admire.

Jefferson, Washington, John Taylor of Caroline are but a few of the men that are real hero’s of this country.

 

[christofirst]

WOW, all of them supported strong authoritarian values. It is well documnet that Linclon would have people arrested that disagreed with him.

You can tell the leaning of a person by those they admire.

Jefferson, Washington, John Taylor of Caroline are but a few of the men that are real hero’s of this country.

Be sure to bring them up next time you address congress.

I’m particularly heartened that our Jesuit Pope singled out two Catholics who followed the Rule of St. Benedict.

There were so many great American Catholics he could have chosen, but as I say, I’m happy with the two he picked.

 

[friardchips]

4029tv.com/politics/urgent-pope-francis-names-four-great-americans/35458200

Martin Luther King Jnr

MLK. Definitely. And no doubt his wife. Wives of famous men tend to get ignored. Every good man needs a strong-hearted wife by his side.

And how about Disney? I would say that lighting the imaginations up of billions of children and bringing joy to their lives is very important.

Sister Briege Mckenna? (And she’s alive although maybe Irish descent).

There are loads, surely. Too many to number.

 

[Songcatcher]

I am in awe of Dorothy Day, when I consider all she did. I am a particular devotee of Merton, myself. What most strikes me about his choice is that all four, especially King, Day and Merton, had what we Catholics would consider “checkered pasts,” areas of their lives very much in need of God’s forgiveness and mercy, a theme apparently dear to our Holy Father’s heart. Yet, they were able to overcome these “flaws” and weaknesses (common to most of us), and accomplish much good.

Great speech indeed!

I’ve read a great deal about Dorothy Day but very little about Thomas Merton. I have already begun to remedy that today! Any suggestions on what I might read? I’ve just been exploring the internet so far, so any links would be much appreciated.

 

[StMichael929]

His autobiography ‘The Seven Story Mountain’ is the best place to start.

 

[J_Peterson]

I am in awe of Dorothy Day, when I consider all she did. I am a particular devotee of Merton, myself. What most strikes me about his choice is that all four, especially King, Day and Merton, had what we Catholics would consider “checkered pasts,” areas of their lives very much in need of God’s forgiveness and mercy, a theme apparently dear to our Holy Father’s heart. Yet, they were able to overcome these “flaws” and weaknesses (common to most of us), and accomplish much good.

Great speech indeed!

I too love Merton. I do need to read more of his works. Life and Holiness changed the way I thought about Catholicism and Seeds of Contemplation changed the way I think about Christianity, the self, and reality in general. Such an amazing thinker.

I like Dorothy Day as well but I’m only familiar with The Long Loneliness and some essays in the Catholic Worker.

 

[Megan7]

4029tv.com/politics/urgent-pope-francis-names-four-great-americans/35458200

Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Dorothy Day and Thomas Merton.

Four of my heroes too

I notice the applause from congress during the Pope’s address was often partisan, as usual, and not particularly strong when he named those four.

Saint Katherine Drexel, Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton, John Carroll, Charles Carroll, Daniel Carroll :thumbsup:

+PAX

 

[friardchips]

MLK. Definitely. And no doubt his wife. Wives of famous men tend to get ignored. Every good man needs a strong-hearted wife by his side.

Sorry, I meant that wives tend to get forgotten in history, not forgotten by their husbands.

 

[christofirst]

Sorry, I meant that wives tend to get forgotten in history, not forgotten by their husbands.

I get what you mean. No one is ever great in complete isolation. Even Trappists like Merton had the support of their fellow monks. Pope Francis likely could have chosen any one of those brother monks of Merton, except that they served in relative obscurity - but no less holy. The same goes for the wives and husbands of those who stand out in some special way. Fortunately, here in the States, Coretta Scott King, Martin’s widow, was revered and respected until she died.

 

[christofirst]

Saint Katherine Drexel, Saint Elizabeth Ann Seton, John Carroll, Charles Carroll, Daniel Carroll :thumbsup:

+PAX

They all would have been great choices for Pope Francis to mention as well.

But obviously, Pope Francis had a message for us to consider in those four he did choose.

 

[Good_Tidings]

They all would have been great choices for Pope Francis to mention as well.

But obviously, Pope Francis had a message for us to consider in those four he did choose.

They were all complicated people who realized they were sinners. They depended on the grace of God to guide their path. An amazing choice for the pope to pick! Love it!

 

[dixieagle]

I’ve read a great deal about Dorothy Day but very little about Thomas Merton. I have already begun to remedy that today! Any suggestions on what I might read? I’ve just been exploring the internet so far, so any links would be much appreciated.

While Seven Storey Mountain is still likely his most well-known work, Merton himself stated, in the preface to a much-later Japanese edition of SSM, ‘‘Perhaps if I were to attempt this book today, it would be written differently. Who knows? But it was written when I was still quite young, and that is the way it remains. The story no longer belongs to me. . . .’’ It’s a good starting place, if you keep that in mind, and read his later works, as well.

My husband is past president of the International Thomas Merton Society, and a Merton scholar. He suggests Merton’s Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander. If you’re interested in a good biography of Merton, check out *Living with Wisdom *by Jim Forest.

 

[Songcatcher]

His autobiography ‘The Seven Story Mountain’ is the best place to start.

While Seven Storey Mountain is still likely his most well-known work, Merton himself stated, in the preface to a much-later Japanese edition of SSM, ‘‘Perhaps if I were to attempt this book today, it would be written differently. Who knows? But it was written when I was still quite young, and that is the way it remains. The story no longer belongs to me. . . .’’ It’s a good starting place, if you keep that in mind, and read his later works, as well.

My husband is past president of the International Thomas Merton Society, and a Merton scholar. He suggests Merton’s Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander. If you’re interested in a good biography of Merton, check out *Living with Wisdom *by Jim Forest.

Thank you both for these suggestions. Looks like I have some reading to do!

 

[philipl]

Be sure to bring them up next time you address congress.

I’m particularly heartened that our Jesuit Pope singled out two Catholics who followed the Rule of St. Benedict.

There were so many great American Catholics he could have chosen, but as I say, I’m happy with the two he picked.

Who knows maybe that day will come. But just because I havent done so doesnt mean those I listed were not great men.

But I do want to know, why are so many progressive catholics desiring to live under an authoritarian government? They admire men like che guevara, fidel, ho chi minh? These men were murdering thugs and yet many progressive catholics were and are drawn to them.

Yet the men that founded this country as despised by progressive catholic. The very men that created a country that allowed for religious freedom are hated by many catholic.

 

[christofirst]

Who knows maybe that day will come. But just because I havent done so doesnt mean those I listed were not great men.

But I do want to know, why are so many progressive catholics desiring to live under an authoritarian government? They admire men like che guevara, fidel, ho chi minh? These men were murdering thugs and yet many progressive catholics were and are drawn to them.

Yet the men that founded this country as despised by progressive catholic. The very men that created a country that allowed for religious freedom are hated by many catholic.

You’re asking the wrong Catholic about Che, Fidel and Ho Chi Min. I am repelled by those guys.

The fact that the three great men you suggested as alternatives for the pope - Washington, Jefferson, and Taylor - were all also slave owners would likely exclude them from the holy Father’s list, given his present concern for the plight of those still enslaved one way or another around the world today. Talk about an authoritarian institution!

You seem to be very concerned about state’s rights and promoting libertarian concerns, which I guess is why you keep bringing up authoritarian government. I would respond that we all live under some form of under authority, and here in America we are especially blessed with the ability to elect our leaders. I can appreciate your passion for promoting issues you feel strongly about, but the fact remains that Pope Francis chose Lincoln, King, Merton and Day for our consideration.

 

[exnihilo]

WOW, all of them supported strong authoritarian values. It is well documnet that Linclon would have people arrested that disagreed with him.

You can tell the leaning of a person by those they admire.

Jefferson, Washington, John Taylor of Caroline are but a few of the men that are real hero’s of this country.

Lincoln was terrible. As you say he arrested political opponents. He suspended Habeus Corpus. He made war on my land. He allowed great war crimes in his campaign. He had no intentions to end slavery until his war was going badly. He was an arch White supremacist. He wanted to deport Blacks back to Africa. No one can know his true faith but he certainly didn’t attend Church and was not a fervent Christian.

The cult of Lincoln is strong in this country and his temple in DC is certainly impressive. But I have to wonder on what basis Lincoln was chosen to admire.

 

[christofirst]

Lincoln was terrible. As you say he arrested political opponents. He suspended Habeus Corpus. He made war on my land. He allowed great war crimes in his campaign. He had no intentions to end slavery until his war was going badly. He was an arch White supremacist. He wanted to deport Blacks back to Africa. No one can know his true faith but he certainly didn’t attend Church and was not a fervent Christian.

The cult of Lincoln is strong in this country and his temple in DC is certainly impressive. But I have to wonder on what basis Lincoln was chosen to admire.

On the basis that most Americans, and apparently the Holy Father, do not share your summary of Lincoln. The bottom line is, he freed the slaves, and ultimately kept our United States together, the same United States our Holy Father addressed yesterday.