Pope Francis Names Liberal Fr. James Martin, SJ as Vatican Communications Consultant

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Fr James Martin SJ accepts award from banned LGBT group ewtn.co.uk/news/world/fr-james-martin-sj-accepts-award-from-banned-lgbt-group
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                                            From the article 

                                             An indication of Fr Martin SJ's position on the Church's doctrine on homosexuality is suggested by his reaction to the 2014 Extraordinary Synod mid-term document that was roundly criticised by the Synod Fathers for its partial presentation of the Church's teaching and their deliberations. Fr Martin, however, praised the omissions in the document:
‘This represents a revolutionary change in how the church addresses the LGBT community. Nowhere in the document are such terms as “intrinsically disordered,” “objectively disordered,” or even the idea of “disinterested friendships” among gays and lesbians, which was used just recently. The veteran Vaticanologist John Thavis rightly called the document an “earthquake.”’
 
Havard said:
He has been critical of ordinary, orthodox Catholics when it comes to homosexuality. For example, he tweeted:

“People who say ‘Love the sinner, hate the sin’ when it comes to being gay, forget that being gay is not a sin.”

With all due respect to him, the tweet is off-base and insulting. He’s suggesting that people who hold this position conflate “the sin” with “being gay”. In all my life, “the sin” has always referred to instances where people turn away from God’s will. That is a tragedy, which we should rightly hate, because we ought to love them and desire their ultimate good. But the tweet suggests that we are already condemning them imply for having a propensity to sin, which is absurd, since we all have various propensities for sin.
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It is absurd, I agree. Hope he was having a bad day and just not thinking properly when he tweeted.
 
stinkcat_14 said:
It someone is condemning gays for their propensity, that indeed would be wrong. I have never seem where someone was condemned for their propensity though.
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I have always been taught that propensity for sin is part an parcel of our humanity, something we all have.

I like Fr. Martin. I think this is a great move on the part of the Pope, gossips no withstanding.
 
pnewton said:
You are aware of the logical fallacy here, no doubt. It was the same fallacy that was used against Trump when he received the support of neo-Nazis.
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Perhaps you would have been better off not trading one logical fallacy for another. There is quite a difference from someone receiving support from a group (which I believe Trump did his best to distance himself from) with someone who receives AND ACCEPTS an award from a group that he sympathizes with.

Fr. Martin refuses to acknowledge that homosexuality is an intrinsic disorder, which tells me that he believes he is above the Catechism and the traditional teachings of the Church.
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."
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Pulvis said:
This article by Fr. Longenecker may give some insight into How Pope Francis governs.

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2017/04/vatican-sounds-increasingly-anglican.html

Makes sense to me in as much as The Holy Father seems to like to stir the pot.

A Blessed Easter season to all!
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From Fr. Longenecker’s article:

"The recent selection of Fr James Martin and Michael Warsaw to be part of the Vatican communications team would indicate that this is the case. The Jesuit Fr Martin is a well known progressive. I might say he is an outspoken progressive, but he is too smart to be outspoken. Instead he shrouds his progressive agenda with sentimental spirituality and intentional ambiguity. If you would like to learn about Fr Martin’s advocacy of the LGBT agenda read this article at Crisis.

On the other hand we have the appointment of Michael Warsaw–head of the EWTN media empire. Folks at EWTN and National Catholic Register would be respectful to members of the LGBT community, but they would certainly not celebrate the gay culture."
 
Fr. Martin tweeted once, ‘#Trans students endure so many indignities already. They should be able to use whatever bathrooms they choose. It’s doesn’t hurt anybody.’ So he advocates for men being able to use the women’s facilities and women the men’s. Furthermore he advocates for the whole notion of transgenders. This is very concerning and at odds with human dignity.

I’m not sure he is a good communicator so much as he says what itching ears want to hear and thus is popular.
 
exnihilo said:
Fr. Martin tweeted once, ‘#Trans students endure so many indignities already. They should be able to use whatever bathrooms they choose. It’s doesn’t hurt anybody.’ So he advocates for men being able to use the women’s facilities and women the men’s. Furthermore he advocates for the whole notion of transgenders. This is very concerning and at odds with human dignity.

I’m not sure he is a good communicator so much as he says what itching ears want to hear and thus is popular.
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Insofar as what this priest said about bathroom use by transgender people, I do not see where he is wrong, both on moral and social grounds. Transgender people do endure indignities already for who they are, which are contrary to Catholic (Christian) teaching. The same fear existed at first regarding gay people’s use of the same bathroom as straight people, and such fears proved unwarranted. People should just learn to mind their own business, particularly in the bathroom!
 
I realize that the rules against speaking ill of priests have been relaxed some what, but one has some secret knowledge that this priest is some how a heretic, perhaps you should inform the Vatican. I am reasonably certain that Pope Francis is not a Church Militant subscriber. However, realize that it takes more to be a heretic than simply not speaking out on one doctrine. It takes an affirmative and persistent denial of that doctrine.
 
meltzerboy said:
Insofar as what this priest said about bathroom use by transgender people, I do not see where he is wrong, both on moral and social grounds. Transgender people do endure indignities already for who they are, which are contrary to Catholic (Christian) teaching. The same fear existed at first regarding gay people’s use of the same bathroom as straight people, and such fears proved unwarranted. People should just learn to mind their own business, particularly in the bathroom!
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The priest is right that ‘transgender’ people experience indignity. But there is indignity experienced because people are not charitable to them and indignity experienced because they demand the world yield to their mental state. The later would be self inflicted. I count wanting to use different facilities from their sex in the latter.

What exactly was people’s fear of gay people in bathrooms and why was it unwarranted?

I do agree that people should mind their own business in the bathroom, but this has now become a political issue. No matter what side prevails we aren’t all going to be minding our own business.
 
pnewton said:
I suspect many of those “Church Militants” who think Fr. James Martin is a heretic, think that Pope Francis himself qualifies as one, too.

While most CAF posters are too mindful of charity rules to say this, it seems that someone calls the CAL radio show at least once a week to ask “Isn’t Pope Francis a heretic”. And seem to be quite serious about this accusation, not just trolling (though I have heard my share of likely trolls both on CAL and some EWTN radio shows).*
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toeinthewater said:
i suspect many of those “church militants” who think fr. James martin is a heretic, think that pope francis himself qualifies as one, too.

While most caf posters are too mindful of charity rules to say this, it seems that someone calls the cal radio show at least once a week to ask “isn’t pope francis a heretic”. And seem to be quite serious about this accusation, not just trolling (though i have heard my share of likely trolls both on cal and some ewtn radio shows).
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😊
 
larsont7 said:
Well, Fr. Martin does use the term “liberal” when referring to himself:
Source: thepope.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/18/the-jewish-people-joseph-ratzinger-and-me/

The article had a couple more zingers as well:

Non-Christian religions are gravely deficient and other denominations do have defects. I’m not sure what he’s even trying to say here. Granted, he did come around and say he was impressed with some of what Pope Benedict was doing, but he couldn’t avoid throwing in those little digs.
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That’s interesting, bec I also at first thought Pope Benedict might have some problems – as a person who puts his foot in his mouth, like me (takes one to know one). 🙂 And BXVI did say some reckless things about non-Christians as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, reckless bec criticizing, say, Hinduism, can get Christians in India killed, which has happened. And I think he did speak of “the Crusades” in a way that got some Muslims hot under the collar.

However, as it turns out he was more “liberal” than liberal JPII. Love his CARITAS IN VERITATE and “If You Want to Cultivate Peace, Protect Creation.”

In fact JPII, BXVI, and Pope Francis are all liberals and don’t differ much from each other except in style, so I guess Fr. James Martin is right there with them. 🙂

But I can understand why some from the “American Conservative Catholic Church” – as represented by the Church Militant, Bannon, and certain others – might spit out the word “liberal” as an epithet, since that branch of Catholicism seems to have wandered somewhat from the fold.
 
Hmm that’s interesting.

The headline for this thread doesn’t match the headline in the article.

I thought that it was a rule that a thread had to use the headline of the article being posted ?

Oh well, must’ve been modified while I was away. 😃

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Hmm that’s interesting.

The headline for this thread doesn’t match the headline in the article.

I thought that it was a rule that a thread had to use the headline of the article being posted ?

Oh well, must’ve been modified while I was away. 😃

Jim
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In fairness to the OP, Church Militant does have the bad habit of frequently changing headlines. If you look at the URL, you can tell that “ultra liberal” was probably the original headline.
 
Inisfallen said:
Yes. And that Church Militant site is pretty vicious. They seem to have a bit of a bee in their bonnet about gay men. Lots of fulminations and insinuation. And they actually had the nerve to demand that Father Martin tell them whether or not he is himself homosexual. As if it’s any of their business. Or as if it matters, in the case of a celibate man.

It’s pretty nasty.
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Well, given that Church Militant is led by Michael Voris, who lived an active homosexual lifestyle and, according to comments made in one of the mainstream media articles about him, his gay partner died of AIDS, then I think any amateur psychologist can figure out what’s going on over there.
 
Jig_Saw said:
In fairness to the OP, Church Militant does have the bad habit of frequently changing headlines. If you look at the URL, you can tell that “ultra liberal” was probably the original headline.
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Then it shouldn’t have been posted at all with a derogatory name in the title.

Attacking Priest in CAF was also against the rules. 😃

Jim
 
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