Pope Francis Objects To Rigid Ideology Among Christians

[Aelred_Minor]

Some people, in the name of Catholicism, just promote an ethical or political system, often based on the values of the world and in contradiction to the faith of the Church. Jesus is rarely, if ever, mentioned, not to mention encouraging people to love Him and seek His forgiveness for their sins for the salvation of their souls.

Such folks are often so rigid about their ideological positions, they will not change them even if the CDF tells them they are in error or even if the Pope judges their position definitively an error.

True, though I don’t think that was the focus of the Pope’s remarks here.

 

[po18guy]

Which rigid ideology did our Lord condemn seven-fold in Matthew 23? The Pharisaic tradition. Where is the love in that?

I believe that our Holy Father is calling and pulling the Church out of the pigeon holes into which it has been placed (and at times has placed itself) and back into the primary role of proclaimer of the light of Christ to a world that is in darkness.

 

[OliverR]

Don’t allow the “role” of being a Christian to become mistaken for the truth of being a Christian. You’re only fooling yourself and most certainly not God.

(Edit: And a closed shop Church is exclusive not inclusive.)

 

[StraitGateSheep]

Which rigid ideology did our Lord condemn seven-fold in Matthew 23? The Pharisaic tradition. Where is the love in that?

I believe that our Holy Father is calling and pulling the Church out of the pigeon holes into which it has been placed (and at times has placed itself) and back into the primary role of proclaimer of the light of Christ to a world that is in darkness.

Hello my friend.

Grace to you and the rest.

After we HEAR, next, we DO ( = submission to the Teachings of God)

James.1
[21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness,
and receive with meekness the engrafted Word (Teaching from God),
which is able to save your souls.
[22] But be ye >>> doers of the Word, and not >> hearers only,
deceiving your own selves.
[23] For if any one is a >> hearer of the Word and not a >> doer,
he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[24] For he beholds himself, and goes his way,
straightway forgets (is unaffected by) what manner of man he was.
[25] But whoever looks into the perfect law of liberty,
and >> continues therein,
he being >> a forgetful hearer but a >> doer of the work,
this man shall be >> blessed (from above) in his deed.

A brotherly reminder.

 

[po18guy]

Hello my friend.

Grace to you and the rest.

After we HEAR, next, we DO ( = submission to the Teachings of God)

James.1
[21] Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness,
and receive with meekness the engrafted Word (Teaching from God),
which is able to save your souls.
[22] But be ye >>> doers of the Word, and not >> hearers only,
deceiving your own selves.
[23] For if any one is a >> hearer of the Word and not a >> doer,
he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[24] For he beholds himself, and goes his way,
straightway forgets (is unaffected by) what manner of man he was.
[25] But whoever looks into the perfect law of liberty,
and >> continues therein,
he being >> a forgetful hearer but a >> doer of the work,
this man shall be >> blessed (from above) in his deed.

A brotherly reminder.

Methinks my post was not clear. We are not primarily a legalistic Church, correct? Legalism leads to Pharisaic rigidity. It forces love out in favor of legalism.

 

[StraitGateSheep]

Methinks my post was not clear. We are not primarily a legalistic Church, correct? Legalism leads to Pharisaic rigidity. It forces love out in favor of legalism.

---

My Brother we have laws also.

Just accepting things as told and not acting on the simple rules is DEATH
and that’s where we are.

Contact with Jesus is where the action and enlightenment really start.

This ‘religion’ has secrets and mysteries and restrictions.

The best to all.

 

[Fr_of_Jazz]

…here ya’ go…I found it (sorry about not posting link earlier; sipped me mind).

inquisitr.com/1001352/pope-francis-objects-to-rigid-ideology-among-christians/

Thank you. I’m going to keep an eye out, but until I can read it all in context it is too hard to be sure exactly what he is saying from the all-too-often ideologically driven news coverage.

 

[KP3243]

They talked about this same thing on Thesrea Tomeo’s show today or yesterday. You can find the pod cast on Ava Maria radio or her website.

 

[po18guy]

---

My Brother we have laws also.

Just accepting things as told and not acting on the simple rules is DEATH
and that’s where we are.

Contact with Jesus is where the action and enlightenment really start.

This ‘religion’ has secrets and mysteries and restrictions.

The best to all.

You have completely lost me.

 

[shelby_sun]

I read it differently in that Pope Francis was warning us to put Jesus first and not concentrate obsessively on things such as one moral issue so much so that we exclude Jesus. Or to get so caught up in a Church issue such as whether mass should be EF or OF and again, sideline Jesus. He is warning that if we are not careful, we may allow something like that to erode our faith and then we become like the pharisees who were careful to be seen rattling off prayers and following the motions. The Pharisees cared more about the public display than heartfelt loving prayers.

On an aside, when I see children singing a hymn with total sincerity, the tears some to my eyes my heart is moved (I love every flat note). I don’t get that way with many beautiful renditions from a lot of adult choirs who rehearsed the hymn so much, they lost the love and faith.

Pope Francis isn’t saying that we should give up caring about a moral issue or the mass, but rather that we first and foremost concentrate on Jesus and our faith. When I think about it, I realise that some people get very caught up in something and start on the foundation of Jesus, faith and the teachings of the Church. But the issue becomes greater in their minds than the teachings of the Church (and therefore Jesus), the foundation starts cracking and true faith starts to diminish. Next thing we see is someone within the Church preaching against the Word of God e.g. advocating abortion, contraception, euthanasia etc etc or stirring up discord within a community.

It seems more like a request to pause, reflect and go back to Jesus, get the love for and of, Christ back into the heart of life. When refreshed and renewed, with Jesus at the center, then carry on, fighting the good fight with love. It seems to me that the love and faith that we live, breath and speak is the “Christ-light” that will draw sinners to repent and turn to Jesus.

Well that is how I read it. One thing I am learning is that Pope Francis’ homilies need meditating on.

I agree. Some may thing you must understand everything the church teaches before we start building a relationship with Christ. Some think you should build a relationship with Christ before you can understand what the church is trying to teach.

For those of us that are cradle Catholics, we build our relationship with Christ first because we are simply to young to understand the teaching until we start growing up. I would think for those who convert it is the other way around, but as a convert one brings in their past teaching with them and must find out which off those fit in with the Catholic church and which do not.

Some converts come from churches that use the Bible to condemn sinners, but that is simply not what the Jesuits do, so maybe that is where Pope Francis is coming from. For him building a relationship needs to come first to search for the grace to understand the rest.

 

[pnewton]

I think the relationship between Christian ideology and what it really is can best be seen in the family. That is what we are, albeit a dysfunctional one at times. A family does not exist to follow a set of household rules. A family is founded on love. It is a relationship. Household rules are just a way of expressing charity.

 

[Goya]

Thank you. I’m going to keep an eye out, but until I can read it all in context it is too hard to be sure exactly what he is saying from the all-too-often ideologically driven news coverage.

Glad I’m not alone there. It’s not the clearest of messages, and it leaves some room for interpretation if you will. There’s been some good insight in many of the posts above, as to what his intended message may have been, but nothing really definitive, that I could tell, anyway.

I think ultimately I’ll just have to wait and see if he elaborates on it, continues beating the same drum, makes it a sticking point…or if it was more of a ‘thought du jure’ related to a specific context–which is what I’m inclined to believe it was. That is, I don’t think he’s going to develop a ‘crusade’ against ‘ideological Christians’, but rather he was simply suggesting we check ourselves and our priorities, and keep them properly aligned (but then again, he did call it an ‘illness’…so again, I’ll have to wait and see if he follows up on it).

 

[Goya]

He’s not trying to do away with doctrines/ideology, just have us put them in their proper place and perspective.

As I read Pope Francis’ sermons, he is particularly interested in evangelizing those who have fallen away from the Church either through sin or disbelief - bringing them back to Our Lord. He’s after the sheep who have strayed. He’s after lukewarm Catholics. IMO, he sees that as the biggest crisis in our Church that needs to be addressed. I agree. And he’s after those who have never been brought into the flock. People need to brought to a love and belief in Jesus before they’d even have a reason to believe further doctrines about Him. We cannot be effective evangelizers if we are not on fire with love for Our Lord.

I remember a story about Mother Teresa. She said she had many women who approached and wanted to join her order; they wanted to help the needy; social work. But when they found out that being in the order required 3 hours of prayer daily they turned away. Mother Teresa knew how important prayer was to keep God first. She recognized that even something as good as helping the poor could end up usurping God’s place.

Thank you Nita–I found this post to be very helpful in context of my inquiry, and otherwise excellent on its own.

(Though I will note, that your interpretation of his words involve some conjecture–just as these second hand interpretations of his homily, such as the one that prompted my inquiry in the first place, have taken liberties of their own).

 

[Goya]

In this case I don’t see reaching out those on the edges of Catholicism but rather a sort of rebuke to many of us who would describe ourselves as faithful, orthodox, practicing Catholics.

The message, if I understand it, seems to be that an overly intellectual and controversy-driven approach to the faith, separated from a meaningful prayer life, distorts the faith to the point that it is no longer even the faith. We become self-righteous apologists for a particular philosophy instead of disciples and messengers of Jesus Christ. The philosophy we advance may be entirely correct, but it has been “distilled” from the real thing to use the Pope’s metaphor. The problem is not what is in it, but what is lacking from it: love, prayer, humility, patience. We need a fully constituted faith, not an intellectual concentrate of it.

It’s a challenging message for me personally, but it’s a good one.

Please see my reply to Nita, as it applies verbatim, as well.

…and I concur with your last line–it is challenging–and potentially a good one, particularly if we take it as you and Nita have interpreted it.

 

[Matt_Guitar_Man]

He is reminding us to walk the walk. Not just talk the talk.

 

[3DOCTORS]

He is reminding us to walk the walk. Not just talk the talk.

And to pray before we take one single step. And while we go about our daily business. :hammering: And at the end of the day and the beginning of a new day. :blushing: Okay, maybe I wax too poetic - the point is, though, that prayer should permeate our every effort to live the Christian life.

I’m sorry I was snarky yesterday, mea culpa. It’s just that it’s so easy for us to overthink things, and to put too much stock in the stuff that filters down to us through the media, which has a very different agenda. God bless.

 

[Goya]

As a follow up–it seems that among other recurring themes of Pope Francis’ papacy–such as humility, simplicity and the call for evangelization–I find this Pope to be personally challenging, certainly more so than any pope in my life time. By this I mean he seems to be exposing the inherent tension between the institutional, doctrinal structure that sustains the Church out of necessity…and the almost anti-institutional message that permeates throughout Christ’s teachings.

This has been the perpetual paradox of the Church–in order to preserve and pass on the Faith, institutional structure IS–AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN–absolutely necessary (behold protestantism’s 10,000+ denoms as Exhibit “A”–noting further, that this proliferation of distinct sects of Christianity occur AFTER there is a thing called the Bible–which only exists because for 400 some odd years before such existed, an INSTITUTION known as the Church, preserved and protected the writings that comprised it–to say nothing of the 1000+ years in between, in which the Institutional Church preserved the entirety of the Faith, as well).

Can we even begin to imagine the Faith today even remotely resembling that which Christ passed on to his Apostles, and they to their successors, on down the line, without the institutional Church to preserve the integrity of that which it received?

…yet that very Faith which was preserved and passed on by and through that institution, was born of a radicalism that defied the reigning institutions of its day, and in its very founding attitude, essentially disdained the champions of the anchors of such institutions (e.g.–Pharisees and Scribes and the like).

This paradoxical tension I believe, can be said to define the Church.

Now, the reason I say that I find him ‘personally challenging’, is that in his capacity as Pope, he occupies the most conspicuous, influential, and necessary presence representing the Institutional aspect of the Church…while championing the radical, counter point to it (i.e.–Christ’s actual teachings, which largely belie institutionalism).

IMHO.

 

[steve_b]

I am humbly, sincerely, asking for some help here. What is the Pope saying here? isn’t Christianity, by and large, an ideology? Isn’t the Catechism essentially a Re-statement/ declaration of ideology?

Seems to me to be a rather broad brush he has wielded.

Any clarification would be duly appreciated.

^^^just to be clear–I didn’t mean to reduce Christianity to merely an ideology—I fully understand the relationship aspect…but institutionalized Christianity–the Church–how it’s structured…why we believe what we believe…how we apply that to our personal lives…how we view the outside world…imo, these things fall within the ideological aspect of the Church…

…and the Pope refers to it as an illness?

I can’t seem to wrap my mind around it. Again, any light would be very much appreciated.

As I understand him in what he said, don’t become like the scribes and pharisees. Matthew 23:14-39** **

 

[Cathoholic]

RE: Pope Francis: ‘Becoming A Disciple of Ideology Closes the Door to Faith’

Here is some of the salient things the Pope stated (emphasis mine):

“In ideology there is no Jesus: his tenderness, love, meekness. And ideologies are always rigid,” the Pope said.” . . .

. . . .“Christians who lose the faith and prefer ideology become rigid, moralists, ethicists, but without goodness. But this may be the question, no? Why does a Christian become that way? What happens in the heart of that Christian, that priest, of that bishop, of that Pope, that makes them that way. It is simply one thing: that Christian does not pray. And if there is no prayer, you will always close the door.” . . .

. . . . Emphasizing the importance of prayer in Christian life, the 76 year old pontiff, saying that without it, a Christian witness becomes a witness full of pride.

Notice the Holy Father is NOT doing AWAY with “Christian witness” but rather exhorting us to carry out this witnessing (or “Christian witness”) correctly . . . . animated by GRACE through PRAYER.

Nita put things in perspective well when Nita said . . .

I remember a story about Mother Teresa. She said she had many women who approached and wanted to join her order; they wanted to help the needy; social work. But when they found out that being in the order required 3 hours of prayer daily they turned away. Mother Teresa knew how important prayer was to keep God first. She recognized that even something as good as helping the poor could end up usurping God’s place.

Orangebookbag insightfully stated:

“Christianity is not an ideology, it’s a relationship.”

3DOCTORS laid it out pretty frankly when he stated:

" . . . come on, people, this isn’t rocket science. The Pope is exhorting us to have a vital prayer life. Duh!"

• Mere ideology carries out actions as a check list for the sake of the given ideology (think the Pharisees or think one of the “isms” such as Marxism or Marxist ideology for example).
• On the other hand, Christianity carries out actions, not on behalf of a mere ideology, but for the love of Christ.

The Pope is not excluding doctrine! He is exhorting us to allow God to give us grace through prayer when we give “Christian witness”. This way Jesus works IN us and the Father is glorified.

. . . without it (prayer), a Christian witness becomes a witness full of pride.
—Pope Francis

Notice the Pope assumes with graces via prayer, we CAN give “Christian witness” to the world.

Again, the Pope is not excluding doctrine (Think about it. If he was excluding doctrine, THAT in and of itself would be a “doctrine of don’t teach doctrine” and would be a self-contradiction and non-sense).

The Church wants us to carry our Christianity out to the world for the right reasons (first and foremost for the love of Jesus Christ).

That’s WHY Jesus can say in John 14:15 (and John 15:14) "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

JOHN 14:13-15 13 Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; 14 if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. 15 "If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Mere ideology does NOT ask in Jesus’ name.
Keep a good prayer life (“ask in my name”).
Do all for the love of Jesus (“If you love me, you will keep my commandments”).

 

[fhansen]

I am humbly, sincerely, asking for some help here. What is the Pope saying here? isn’t Christianity, by and large, an ideology? Isn’t the Catechism essentially a Re-statement/ declaration of ideology?

Seems to me to be a rather broad brush he has wielded.

Any clarification would be duly appreciated.

^^^just to be clear–I didn’t mean to reduce Christianity to merely an ideology—I fully understand the relationship aspect…but institutionalized Christianity–the Church–how it’s structured…why we believe what we believe…how we apply that to our personal lives…how we view the outside world…imo, these things fall within the ideological aspect of the Church…

…and the Pope refers to it as an illness?

I can’t seem to wrap my mind around it. Again, any light would be very much appreciated.

Christianity, as it is meant to blossom in us, is not at all about a set of rules; it’s about coming to love God with ones whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves, in which case rules no longer apply because goodness itself already guides ones actions. It’s really the difference between the Old and New Covenants; kind of like saying, “Man wasn’t made for the Law, rather the Law was made for man” to put Mark 2:27 in more general terms.

To the extent we merely subjugate ourselves to rigid ideology we’re still living under Old Covenant mentality for all practical puoses, not under grace, not truly following Christ. The Inquisition was a more radical example of the outworkings of this. If Christianity is not much more then adopting a set of rules, then the Spirit has no life in us; we haven’t really changed on the inside-or become authentically righteous-we’re only acquiring the right “look”, so to speak.