It is my hope and my belief in reading this that it is the procedures and rules for annulments that will be looked at rather than changing the teachings of the Church. And I personally feel changes are greatly needed.
For any other mistake - any other sin - no matter how severe - reconciliation is available through any priest at anytime in private.
For people who have left the church and desire to return who have made mistakes regarding marriage - they must face the annulment process involving not only themselves, their current spouse, their former spouse(s), their witnesses, the defender of the bond, the Tribunal, and who knows else. Their mistake is fully documented on paper and in interviews. There is no “kind and number” recitation - but a probing, heart wrenching sometimes, examination of emotional wounds and events that they have to explain to someone they have never seen who will sit in judgement over them. And it’s not a quick or guaranteed resolution like the one receives in the sacrament of penance but a long and uncertain drawn out process.
Obviously this is easier for some people than others - but look at the number of posters here who are afraid of going to confession. Think how much more is asked of those who need to apply for annulment - and then wonder how many of our brothers and sisters have completely given up on the Church because of this obstacle that many do not fully understand?
Are we really so willing to just tell them that “hey - you made your choices - deal with it?” That “if you’re not willing/able to complete this embarrassing, gut-wrenching, paperwork heavy process on your own - oh well, then - guess you’re not fit to be a Catholic?”
Surely, there is a way to still protect the sacrament of matrimony while bringing a more compassionate, simpler path of reconciliation to those who need an annulment than the one size fits all circumstances system filled with paperwork and rules but no counseling method that currently exists?
I absolutely support the Church’s teaching on marriage and the need for an annulment before a second “marriage” (which, of course would really be the first and only marriage if the previously one is annulled). It is the only thing that makes sense to prevent the Church from contradicting herself - which she never does.
But surely we can do this in a better manner - and that’s what I feel our beloved Pope is trying to discern.
don’t forget the church does allow for legally separating. It is remarriage that is the issue that people want. What is needed is ministry and support for the legally divorced. Allowing for remarriage when you are licitly sacramentally married is not possible according to what Jesus taught. Moses may have allowed it but Jesus did not.I thought the whole marriage thing was interesting and has been overlooked. There really has to be an acknowledgement that divorce might be necessary in certain situations. Physically abusive or emotionally controlling relationships for instance? A situation where a man abandons his wife for the younger model? I think that compassion and mercy in such situations are necessary.
Well, this could be denying the victim of abuse or just the wronged spouse in general (mainly women I might add) the ability to remain within the Church and have meaningful adult companionship. Basically, it is telling a woman that she must remain as an “old maid” while her husband shacks up with his secretary and if she wants to remarry, she has to go through a long, tedious process that is basically a “second” divorce and can take years. And BTW, she is not guaranteed the annulment. And we wonder why people are leaving the Church. A clearer process and a bit of mercy is a good thing.don’t forget the church does allow for legally separating. It is remarriage that is the issue that people want. What is needed is ministry and support for the legally divorced. Allowing for remarriage when you are licitly sacramentally married is not possible according to what Jesus taught. Moses may have allowed it but Jesus did not.
I’m jumping right in without having read this thread and while I generally agree on the poor state of catechises there is another element to consider and that is the one that happened shortly after V2 when false teaching began to be promulgated about Catholics remarrying. I have personally heard of some of the justifications that were used in counseling couples that were contra to actual Church teaching. But your statement that the church failed to teach correctly was somewhat rectified later by programs such as Pre-Cana and other marriage prep classes and these have been going on for quite some time now.Maybe that’s because you are young and did not grow up with poor teaching on what marriage as a sacrament is and what it means, and then were held responsible later by a church that failed to teach you correctly in the first place. There is a GREAT need for mercy for people in those circumstances which some people fail to recognize because they didn’t grow up in that era or in a place where that was the case. I say that because when I’ve posted similar things here someone always jumps in to say it wasn’t like that for them. Well that is great, but it was like that for some other people. It has chased many people from the catholic church. It is a sad situation all around. I am glad the pope recognizes that. One of the problems is with people who divorced/remarried years and years ago and come back to the church now. It’s really not “public” sin in that case anymore. No one knows or remembers what happened back then. In addition, the whole annulment issue needs to be re-addressed. It is administered so differently in different areas and is a huge block for many people who would otherwise return to church.
And yet (if you’ve read the entire thread), historically, the Early Church did practice this, at least in the East. The Orthodox still practice this today. Perhaps their approach is not perfect, but then again, maybe the Catholic one isn’t either.don’t forget the church does allow for legally separating. It is remarriage that is the issue that people want. What is needed is ministry and support for the legally divorced. Allowing for remarriage when you are licitly sacramentally married is not possible according to what Jesus taught. Moses may have allowed it but Jesus did not.
And you know the circumstances surrounding the divorce? Let’s take Francis’ word on this… Who am I to judge?I’m jumping right in without having read this thread and while I generally agree on the poor state of catechises there is another element to consider and that is the one that happened shortly after V2 when false teaching began to be promulgated about Catholics remarrying. I have personally heard of some of the justifications that were used in counseling couples that were contra to actual Church teaching. But your statement that the church failed to teach correctly was somewhat rectified later by programs such as Pre-Cana and other marriage prep classes and these have been going on for quite some time now.
My question would be is the Church not showing great mercy right now because the annulments being granted are at an all-time high? There was a couple in our parish just a few months ago whose marriage was blessed after one partner had been married for 30 YEARS!
I’m all for mercy that souls may be saved, but I would ardently hope that the Church would now focus on a more stringent regulation before the white gown is donned.
I feel the same way, especially after reading this article from Catholic News re: Pope Francis speaking about women in the church and how women are more important than priests and bishops because they are like Mary or something like that.We do not know when the end of the time of Divine Mercy will come, any more than we know when the second Coming will be, What we are seeing here is the work of a man who has no regard for clericalism or legalism,and who is prepared to wield the axe to the roots. I sensed this at the moment he appeared on the balcony for the first time.He seems to make his starting point,"What would Jesus say, what would Jesus do?!
If Matthew is the original Gospel (which the Church’s Tradition has taught since the beginning), Jesus did allow divorce in the case of fornication (adultery), and Peter merely omitted this part of the full teaching when preaching to the Romans, notorious both for their fornication and divorce, which was then taken down by his assistant and amanuensis, Mark.don’t forget the church does allow for legally separating. It is remarriage that is the issue that people want. What is needed is ministry and support for the legally divorced. Allowing for remarriage when you are licitly sacramentally married is not possible according to what Jesus taught. Moses may have allowed it but Jesus did not.
I haven’t read the full thread, only a few posts so please excuse if it is already covered:I’m jumping right in without having read this thread and while I generally agree on the poor state of catechises there is another element to consider and that is the one that happened shortly after V2 when false teaching began to be promulgated about Catholics remarrying. I have personally heard of some of the justifications that were used in counseling couples that were contra to actual Church teaching. But your statement that the church failed to teach correctly was somewhat rectified later by programs such as Pre-Cana and other marriage prep classes and these have been going on for quite some time now.
My question would be is the Church not showing great mercy right now because the annulments being granted are at an all-time high? There was a couple in our parish just a few months ago whose marriage was blessed after one partner had been married for 30 YEARS!
I’m all for mercy that souls may be saved, but I would ardently hope that the Church would now focus on a more stringent regulation before the white gown is donned.
Yes, I feel the same way especially after I read this article from Catholic News Service on the role of women in the church.We do not know when the end of the time of Divine Mercy will come, any more than we know when the second Coming will be, What we are seeing here is the work of a man who has no regard for clericalism or legalism,and who is prepared to wield the axe to the roots. I sensed this at the moment he appeared on the balcony for the first time.He seems to make his starting point,"What would Jesus say, what would Jesus do?!
Your link does not work for me even tho you have posted it twice. His words have been misinterpreted by those with an agenda because without priests there would absolutely be no Catholic Church!I feel the same way, especially after reading this article from Catholic News re: Pope Francis speaking about women in the church and how women are more important than priests and bishops because they are like Mary or something like that.
catholicnews.com/data/sto…ns
The circumstances have zero to do with my post - the point is there are situations in which annulments are being granted now and there are more of them than ever before, ergo, the Church is showing more mercy.And you know the circumstances surrounding the divorce? Let’s take Francis’ word on this… Who am I to judge?
Thank you for answering me. I don’t know why the links didn’t work.Your link does not work for me even tho you have posted it twice. His words have been misinterpreted by those with an agenda because without priests there would absolutely be no Catholic Church!
While I think mercy is part of it, I think the main reasons are a greater understanding of psychology and a sad recognition of the poor job many pastors did at pre-cana preparation for a few decades.The circumstances have zero to do with my post - the point is there are situations in which annulments are being granted now and there are more of them than ever before, ergo, the Church is showing more mercy.
The part about the Orthodox church he places in parenthesis. I don’t think he is talking about changing the church’s teaching so much as praxis.This is a subject that is always asked about. Mercy is greater than the case you pose. I believe this is the time of mercy. This change of era, also so many problems of the Church – such as the witness that’s not good of some priests, also problems of corruption in the Church, also the problem of clericalism, to give an example – have left so many wounds, so many wounds. And the Church is Mother: she must go to heal the wounds with mercy. But if the Lord does not tire of forgiving, we have no other choice than this: first of all, to cure the wounds. The Church is Mother and must go on this path of mercy. And find mercy for all. But I think, when the Prodigal Son returned home, his father didn’t say: “But you, listen sit down: what did you do with the money?” No! He had a feast! Then, perhaps, when the son wished to speak, he spoke. The Church must do likewise. When there is someone … not just wait for them: go to find them! This is mercy. And I believe that this is a kairos: this time is a kairos of mercy. But John Paul II had this first intuition, when he began with Faustina Kowalska, the Divine Mercy … he had something, he had intuited that it was a necessity of this time. With reference to the problem of Communion, it’s not a problem, but when they are in a second union, they can’t. I think that it’s necessary to look at this in the totality of matrimonial ministry. And because of this it’s a problem. But also –a parenthesis – the Orthodox have a different practice. They follow the theology of the economy, as we call it, and give a second possibility, they allow it. But I think this problem – I close the parenthesis – must be studied in the framework of matrimonial ministry. And because of this, two things: first, one of the subjects to be consulted with these eight of the Council of Cardinals, with whom we will meet, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd of October, is how to go forward in matrimonial ministry, and this problem will arise there. And, a second thing: Fifteen days ago, the secretary of the Synod of Bishops was with me, for the topic of the next Synod. It was an anthropological topic, but speaking and speaking again, going and returning, we saw this anthropological topic: how faith helps the planning of the person, but in the family, and to go, therefore, to matrimonial ministry. We are on the way for a somewhat profound matrimonial ministry. And this is everyone’s problem, because there are so many, no? For instance, I’ll mention only one: Cardinal Quarracino, my predecessor, said that for him half of all marriages are null. Why did he say this? Because they get married without maturity, they marry without remembering that it’s for the whole of life, or they marry because socially they must marry. And the matrimonial ministry also comes into this. And also the judicial problem of the nullity of marriages, this must be reviewed, because the Ecclesiastical Tribunals are not enough for this. The problem of the matrimonial ministry is complex. Thank you.