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onmyknees
Guest
Yes, This is the link I meant. Thank you.
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Tigg
Guest
People believe whatever suits them and we know the spin the MSM puts on these reports in addition to possible translation errors. There is a rather large contingent that wishes church teaching would be changed in several areas. So they might interpret his words to bolster their side of the debate. We need clarity from the Vatican in order to understand just exactly what point he is making and the above quote has caused quite a misunderstanding. See Post #71, for example, of this related thread:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=11066933#post11066933
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Misplaced_Book
Guest
The Advocate stated the Orthodox position pretty well. The principle of Economia is one that has caused more than a few to stumble because at first glance it seems like license.
I applaud Pope Francis for this, because the Annulment system in the Latin Church has been inconsistent, tangled and in some cases incoherent for some time now. A reform or perhaps a reconsideration was long overdue.
I applaud Pope Francis for this, because the Annulment system in the Latin Church has been inconsistent, tangled and in some cases incoherent for some time now. A reform or perhaps a reconsideration was long overdue.
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onmyknees
Guest
Thank you again Tigg, I read post 71 to the end of the thread. I hope you are correct about others might be interpreting his words bolster their side. I wonder too if the pope could have some translation issues when having to speak in different languages.
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kag1982
Guest
He was speaking in Italian and Spanish, languages in which he is fluent. Can we please get over this silliness where we consider Pope Francis a country bumpkin who somehow wandered into the Vatican who needs to learn to be pope? I think that everyone, even people like myself who like Francis’ tone and comments, understand that he isn’t going to call Vatican III to discuss women’s ordination to the priesthood or conduct gay marriages at St. Peter’s. However, he is clearing up some misnomers that people have. Certain Catholics do believe that the Catholic Church demands that women follow certain traditional gender roles and that they submit to their husbands. I’ve seen the posts on the board and can probably point out a few. Certain Catholics believe that it is okay to exclude gay people from the Church and say intolerant things about them. Some people believe that divorced, but not remarried, Catholics cannot receive Communion. None of this is official Church teaching, but it is out there. If anything, Francis was cleaning up these wrong, but popular misconceptions.
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Julian_Bashir
Guest
If he was “clearing” these up why are they being discussed with different reads on what he said all over the Internet?
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sagimore
Guest
Pope francis, during his press conference, suggested that those who have divorced and remarried might be admitted to holy communion for reasons of compassion. he suggested the orthodox church’s practice as a model for us.
I think he will as he said streamline the annulment, if two people being married were not Christian in their heart the sacrament couldn’t exist. Or if they were married without confession. Its the same thing, you cant take communion and receive the sacrament without a clean soul the same way you cant be married in front of God and receive the sacrament- I think this will be the road this goes down.
I think he will as he said streamline the annulment, if two people being married were not Christian in their heart the sacrament couldn’t exist. Or if they were married without confession. Its the same thing, you cant take communion and receive the sacrament without a clean soul the same way you cant be married in front of God and receive the sacrament- I think this will be the road this goes down.
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onmyknees
Guest
Well I love Pope Francis! And I loved my German Shepard,
now Pope Emeritus.Catholics don’t believe that the Church demands women to follow certain gender roles. I think that women have many roles in the Church.
Catholic women don’t have to submit to their husbands. Women respect their husbands and the husbands love their wives as Christ loved his Church.
All Catholics are called to love every soul including gays and they are welcome in the Church.
I don’t know what certain Catholics you are speaking about.
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Colorad007
Guest
So what exactly can the Church do about divorced and remarried couples without compromising on the doctrine of the indissolubility of marriage ? I assume that granting broader access to annulments might be one option, but that doesn’t really seem like a rousing endorsement of the institution of marriage. I appreciate the call for mercy, but not at the cost of an already beleaguered institution that the Church holds up as foundational for human society. The Church cannot just adopt the Orthodox way without contravening the Catholic teaching on marriage, correct?
I am just struggling to understand what a Synod might hope to accomplish here. Is there a canonical solution, or is Holy Communion pretty much not possible without an annulment? I hate to feel alarmed, because we trust that the Holy Spirit is working here. I just don’t understand what can be done beyond just treating remarried folks with greater care and pastoral outreach. Maybe that is what the Pope was hinting at. Or maybe not. It is so hard when some traditionalists and all of the liberal Catholic and secular world are thinking that the Church is about to reboot on marriage, to not buy into it.
I am just struggling to understand what a Synod might hope to accomplish here. Is there a canonical solution, or is Holy Communion pretty much not possible without an annulment? I hate to feel alarmed, because we trust that the Holy Spirit is working here. I just don’t understand what can be done beyond just treating remarried folks with greater care and pastoral outreach. Maybe that is what the Pope was hinting at. Or maybe not. It is so hard when some traditionalists and all of the liberal Catholic and secular world are thinking that the Church is about to reboot on marriage, to not buy into it.
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Tomdstone
Guest
The Orthodox claim that they allowed divorce under certain restricted conditions from early on, and that Rome did not object (This was when the two Churches were in union).
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kag1982
Guest
Because I think that more conservative Catholics have issues with what was being said and are trying to twist it into pretzels.
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Julian_Bashir
Guest
Yes I know, you say that in every topic you post in. We get it; you aren’t a fan of orthodox Catholics and believe they are attempting to smear the Pope by having the nerve to quote him…
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kag1982
Guest
No… I’m annoyed by the insinuation that Francis is a country bumpkin who doesn’t know how to communicate rather than just admitting that you don’t like his focus.
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Tigg
Guest
I love your entire post as it echoes so accurately the concerns of the faithful. As we can know from Church history, Scripture, writings of the saints and prophecy, there is only one thing a Roman Catholic can do and that is to pray and trust. We know we live in spiritually perilous times and that the Church has suffered and endured many crisis’ - perhaps we will even face an unprecedented event in the future. Complete devotion to the Immaculate Heart is my comfort and to remember well the meaning of Sensus Fidelium as it has played out during other times of upheaval and confusion. And as one priest quipped (I think there was an article on this) want to survive the current age? Become a saint! Increase your Mass attendance and hours of Adoration, sacrifice much, fast and do penance. Of course, won’t we look silly to the rest of the world?
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Julian_Bashir
Guest
You read your own prejudices into what people say, and apparently have the ability to see beyond words and into people’s hearts. Calm down. If I attack his focus, you’d have a relevant point. No one has. Pope Francis made a claim you haven’t even attempted to back up with actual evidence, so I can see why it would be easier to resort to “nanny nanny boo boo” games about what people are actually thinking.
Even more amusing is that you he rant about Pope Benedict for “not speaking to you,” “not beng understandable,” etc, and then get your feelings hurt because people are curious what our Pope Francis meant by a specific sentence?
So if you don’t understand what Pope Francis meant in one specific sentence, your an arrogant orthodox Catholic snob who doesn’t like his theological focus, but if you belittle the entire Pontificate of Pope Benedict because you couldn’t understand him or because he didn’t speak to you, it’s because Pope Benedict need to enunciate more, or some other silly reason. Got it.
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kag1982
Guest
I know what Benedict’s papacy was about… Namely getting rid of Vatican II. I wasn’t in favor of it. It is okay if you don’t like Francis’ more moderate focus. Nobody said that you have to like the Pope. What does annoy me is people creating elaborate constructs… the main one being that Francis is a country bumpkin rather than just admitting the truth.
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Corki
Guest
That statement is bordering on slander.
Pope Benedict spent much of his papacy getting people to think about Vatican II. He reaffirmed all of the teachings of the council.
If there was a single theme that you could say about Pope Benedict’s papacy, it would be to get Catholics to think and learn rather than focus only on our personal feelings.
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bben15
Guest
Note that they are not “re-marrying.” An annulment is a declaration that the sacrament never took place.
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onenow1
Guest
Per Dominum nostrum Jesum Christum, et Beatam Virginem.
Prostrate yourself in the presence of the Eucharist.
Recite the Rosary devoutly. Put your trust in the Virgin Mother.
It is impossible to pray the Rosary frequently and continue to sin.
Prostrate yourself in the presence of the Eucharist.
Recite the Rosary devoutly. Put your trust in the Virgin Mother.
It is impossible to pray the Rosary frequently and continue to sin.
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Tomdstone
Guest
They had to be married in order for the children to be legitimate.
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