Pope Francis on we are all children of God yet the bible says only those who believe in Christ are

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MountainCruiser said:
LOL. That’s the exact same biblical quote I quoted when I said that there are people who have never heard the Gospel and that they are judged on what they do know…
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Of course…

LOL! Did the ancient Chinese ever hear of Jesus? Of course not…
Can any say they’re all going to Hell? Of Course not…

Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my Gospel declares.
 
EndTimes said:
Of course…

LOL! Did the ancient Chinese ever hear of Jesus? Of course not…
Can any say they’re all going to Hell? Of Course not…
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There are Chinese living today that have never heard of Jesus. But I was really asking my question to Uriel1 since he/she stated “no one comes to the Father except through Jesus”. That statement is not exactly true.
 
MountainCruiser said:
There are Chinese living today that have never heard of Jesus. But I was really asking my question to Uriel1 since he/she stated “ no one comes to the Father except through Jesus”. That statement is not exactly true.
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It is true once you realize that we are the Temple of God… and that God can dwell within us.
 
MountainCruiser said:
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EndTimes:
Of course…

LOL! Did the ancient Chinese ever hear of Jesus? Of course not…
Can any say they’re all going to Hell? Of Course not…
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There are Chinese living today that have never heard of Jesus. But I was really asking my question to Uriel1 since he/she stated “no one comes to the Father except through Jesus”. That statement is not exactly true.
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Jesus said it; but you say, “That statement is not exactly true.”
Enough said
 
Uriel1 said:
Jesus said it; but you say, “That statement is not exactly true.”
Enough said
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What then what becomes of a man who lives and dies never hearing about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, destined for hell and eternal separation from God?
 
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You could start by reading Matthew 3 11 “I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”
 
Not sure what you are talking about here. My response was addressing someone who was taking a universalist view that we can be saved by works apart from faith. Are you implying that your faith takes a universalist stance on justification?
 
MountainCruiser said:
What then what becomes of a man who lives and dies never hearing about the Gospel of Jesus Christ, destined for hell and eternal separation from God?
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Please to Review this thread… for that question has already been answered a legion of times
 
Hodos said:
Not sure what you are talking about here. My response was addressing someone who was taking a universalist view that we can be saved by works apart from faith. Are you implying that your faith takes a universalist stance on justification?
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Those who never cease disobeying God’s Command to Love One Another (in Action)
shall not inherit eternal life

Faith leads to Hope - and our Bottom Salvific Line is Charity…

)_
 
EndTimes said:
Those who never cease disobeying God’s Command to Love One Another (in Action)
shall not inherit eternal life

Faith leads to Hope - and our Bottom Salvific Line is Charity…
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So, salvation by works?
 
Hodos said:
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EndTimes:
Those who never cease disobeying God’s Command to Love One Another (in Action)
shall not inherit eternal life

Faith leads to Hope - and our Bottom Salvific Line is Charity…
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So, salvation by works?
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No. Plus that’s ambiguously imprecise regarding what God means by “deeds”
Obeying Mosaic laws or works can never bring Salvation…
Faith? Can Lead to Hope…
In order to inherit eternal Life - Faith and Hope MUST lead to Charitible Actions
Actions via Faith have NAUGHT to do with obeying Mosaic laws - as far as Salvation …

Shall we go deeper with Scriptural Supportive Evidence?

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Sure. Start with Romans 3. Which does Paul say occurs first? Works or justification by faith?
 
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Hodos said:
Sure. Start with Romans 3. Which does Paul say occurs first? Works or justification by faith?
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SURE…

Paul’s speaking to Jews - bound by Mosaic laws…

“For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.”

You see? Romans 3 - Dovetails EXACTLY with what I’m telling…

Obeying Mosaic laws or works can never bring Salvation…
Actions via Faith have NAUGHT to do with obeying Mosaic laws - as far as Salvation …

Shall there be any more questions?
 
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That’s an interesting take considering Paul has just explicitly spoken about all men, both Jew and Gentile being condemned in that same passage. So, the audience Paul is speaking about is not just Jews, and is not limited to the Mosaic law. Athanasius agrees with me on this point in his discussion of the law in Chapter 3 of On the Incarnation. Nor does Paul make the statement that faith plus works in that passage result in justification. Paul specifically wrote Chapter 2 saying that your works condemn you, not justify you, and that you are justified by faith apart from works of the law.
 
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Hodos said:
That’s an interesting take considering Paul has just explicitly spoken about all men, both Jew
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It’s not so much of an interesting - as it is of Paul speaking then as per Romans 3
to Jews and the Mosaic Law -

And Paul preached to Jews up until the time when all they kept on doing was trying to Kill him

It was then - Paul’s focus shifted mainly to Gentiles…

PLUS?

Any who’ve read Paul’s Epistles on Faith versus Mosaic laws in some of his other Epistles
  • know that Romans 3 is consistent with that same Teaching…
Jews are not bound by the Mosaic Law. They were all called to place their Faith in Jesus.

Some Jews accepted that and grew in Faith and received God’s Spirit - which leads to Salvation

And therein lies the gist of the gulf between
the Jews who accepted Christ aka Jewish Christians and those who did not.

That ‘gulf’ exists today for that understanding continues - of course - to be unacceptable to some.

_
 
My comfort is in John 3: 3-8. Many evangelical churches do a great job in having children of God to be born again. It up to us Catholics to show the Light of Christ in the Eucharist so they desire to be Eucharistic Children of God as Jesus proclaimed in John 6 : 51-58.
 
mmm said:
It up to us Catholics to show the Light of Christ in the Eucharist so they desire to be Eucharistic Children of God as Jesus proclaimed in John 6 : 51-58.
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I’d add to that - Sacred Scriptures - God’s Word - Jesus - In Written Form - Holy
 
MountainCruiser said:
no one comes to the Father except through Jesus”. That statement is not exactly true.
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Yes it is true. Even those who did not have a chance to hear about Him but yet will be saved, are being saved by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross. And by His judgement, and by His mercy. There is no salvation apart from Christ. The question of if a person had an opportunity to know Him or not on earth does not negate this. We who are saved, are all saved by Christ.
 
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