Pope Francis open to having some married men become priests

[_Abyssinia]

From: Did Pope Francis open the door to married priests?

By Ed Morrissey

But is Pope Francis calling for the end of a thousand years of practice in relation to married priests? A more careful reading of the Crux report, in advance of the full text of the interview, suggests that the pontiff is calling for exceptions rather than a new rule. Francis wants more emphasis on vocational recruitment rather than a revolution in practice, and in fact appears to expressly reject the latter:

At the same time, Francis appeared to rule [out] simply making priestly celibacy optional, saying that approach “is not a solution.”

So what did the pontiff suggest? The viri probati refers to deacons, men ordained already but for a different form of service. Not all deacons are married men, but all of them (at least for now) are men — about which more in a moment. The full context of the remarks as reported in advance of publication seems to suggest using deacons to fill in for priests in all sacraments, including Mass, when extraordinary circumstances exist that would otherwise keep people from the sacraments. That would necessarily be temporary, not a redefinition of the ordination to the diaconate.

For now, it appears that the pope is still brainstorming about unusual circumstances related to a general problem with generating priestly vocations within the practice of the Latin Rite. The solution still seems to be inspiring more vocations than changing them, and that married priests are still not in the future in this pontificate — or other future pontificates, for that matter.

hotair.com/archives/2017/03/09/did-pope-francis-open-the-door-to-married-priests/

And I think: cruxnow.com/global-church/2017/03/08/pope-francis-signals-openness-ordaining-married-men/

Bold text my emphasis.

 

[stinkcat_14]

No it’s not worth discussing.

Women cannot be ordained and therefore cannot be deaconesses since the office of deacon is an ordained position.

Are you deliberately trolling?

I cannot speak to the motivations of the poster, but I imagine any diocese that would ordain a married priest would have some investigation of his lifestyle, but that is no different than for celibate priests. For example, some dioceses have ordained men who have had marriages annulled. So the fact that a man might be married and remarried might not present an impediment. If a spouse was open about practicing contraception, that would likely be problematic. But these are all issues that vocation departments are certainly capable to dealing with.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Sorry for the confusion, when I was referring to the Anglican Ordinariate, I was referring to Catholic Anglican Use “parishes” that joined the Catholic Church as whole parishes, complete with priest, and many of those formerly Anglican married clergymen are now ordained Catholic married priests. I believe there are also formerly Anglican married Catholic priests outside the Anglican Use parishes.

So, exceptions have already been made for extraordinary situations, and this was made by Pope Benedict XVI, not known as a “liberal” at all.

I think it is one thing to carve out some exceptions for situations such as a whole Anglican parish wanting to convert to the Catholic Church, or perhaps a country with an extreme priest shortage, and quite another to make “married priests the norm” in the Catholic Latin Rite.

In fact this was the type of priest that I met, he was able to give the sacraments to my sick son.

I don’t think married priests will be the norm. I’ve met two married priests, and both were originally Anglican.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

He is still brainstorming about unusual circumstances related to a general problem with generating priestly vocations within the practice of the Latin Rite. The solution still seems to be inspiring more vocations than changing them, and that married priests are still not in the future in this pontificate — or other future pontificates, for that matter.

Many of the Pope’s more controversial statements do seem to be instances of him brainstorming out loud. I wonder if this kind of open-mindedness is a Jesuit thing, though I don’t know enough about Jesuit spirituality to say for sure.

On the other hand, sometimes when I read stories about Pope Francis and some of the more “liberal” bishops, I keep thinking of the old adage, “hard cases make for bad law”. That’s all I’ll say as I do not wish to be uncharitable.

ETA: I think we also need to be wary of deciding that “just because the Pope mentioned the possibility in some interview he is definitely 100% committed to make it happen” even if the media portrays it that way. And this isn’t even just because of “liberal media bias”. The popular media also routinely takes the results of one isolated experiment in the medical or other science realms as definite settled fact, and are happy to declare in blaring headlines something like “Doctors find that drinking coffee will prevent Alzheimer’s” even if the experiment was done on lab rats drinking the human equivalent of 1000 cups of coffee a day.

 

[Cathoholic]

Just some personal musings on these issues (because this question raises many others too so it really isn’t just “one issue” with a question such as this. And I don’t think it is supposed to be just “one issue” with a question like this) . . . .

Does this merely mean more already-married-men being brought into the Priesthood (veri probati)?

Or does it mean single Priests now being able to “date”, various women and marry as a Priest?

Can Priests “court” their parishoners?

Can Priests just date women? Or would dating men be OK too (this issue WILL come up. It is not merely hypothetical rhetoric)? How many wives not just in a polygammous sense, but even if your wife dies, can a Priest then take another? If he’s had MORE than ONE wife, can he be ordained to the episcopacy (the Bishops office)?

Because these questions WILL come up. These are not merely rhetorical questions!

What about Amoris Laetitia and what it does and doesn’t mean?

There is already many **unanswered questions raised by people who are intelectually well formed **concerning Amoris Laetitia, even Bishops and Cardinals are disagreeing about how we are to deal with divorced and remarried laity and reception of Holy Communion.

Pope Francis has publicly said he enjoys “debating” these people who are confused about divorced and remarried people receiving Holy Communion so perhaps we will soon be having this “debate” publicly.

Opening the proverbial floodgates to more married men in the priesthood will force the divorce and remarriage issue to be adequately addressed with authority, because it will be applied to** divorced and remarried Priests**.

This may be good (to force us to more precisely define things), it may serve as a source of scandal, or both.

Then other associated issues still need to be defined, doubts answered, etc. Issues such as fornication, polygammy, and same sex issues.

Are we really ready to broaden the scope of these issues without dealing with the doubts and questions that already remain?

All of these questions such as polygammy, fornication, same-sex issues, etc. have already been brought into the discussion by Bishops, based upon using principles of Amoris Laetitia they have said.

But so far, answers to issues and doubts, and muddled differing interpretations are only based upon unauthoritative “local” interpretations. Some of the Bishops haven’t said anything publicly. Others are at odds with one another.

The question should be asked: "Do we want to see these examples played out in the public with Catholic Priests the way we are currently seeing it played out with Catholic laity??

Maybe that would be a good thing. Maybe not so good.

 

[JPUSC]

Many of the Pope’s more controversial statements do seem to be instances of him brainstorming out loud. I wonder if this kind of open-mindedness is a Jesuit thing, though I don’t know enough about Jesuit spirituality to say for sure.

If ideas from the head of the Jesuits are any indication…

Casting doubt on the words of Jesus leads to despair. Instead, we should trust in God’s promises

St Jerome, one of the great Doctors of the Church and the patron saint of Biblical scholars, famously said that “Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ.” Yet in a recent interview, the current Superior General of the Society of Jesus, Fr Arturo Sosa SJ, asserted that Jesus’ words, as recorded in the Gospels, are not necessarily what He meant to say. If Fr Sosa is right, then it appears that the Scriptures are not a trustworthy source to know Jesus Christ.

catholicherald.co.uk/commentandblogs/2017/02/27/it-isnt-just-fr-sosa-some-scholars-have-been-undermining-the-gospels-for-decades

“Pope Francis does discernment following St. Ignatius, like the whole Society of Jesus: one has to seek and find, St. Ignatius said, the will of God. It is not a frivolous search. Discernment leads to a decision: one must not only evaluate, but decide.”

magister.blogautore.espresso.repubblica.it/2017/02/22/marriage-and-divorce-the-general-of-the-jesuits-jesus-too-must-be-reinterpreted

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

No it’s not worth discussing.

Women cannot be ordained and therefore cannot be deaconesses since the office of deacon is an ordained position.

Are you deliberately trolling?

They did have deaconesses. They were never ordained women, but were women who would assist other women with baptism.

Also, the term deaconess used to also refer to the wife of a deacon.

But you are right, Sacramental Ordination is only for men.

 

[redbaron162]

Where did my church go?

I don’t mean this at all in a uncharitable manner, but it’s not your Church. It is Christ’s Church and if Christ’s Vicar or magisterium decided to change a discipline of the Church then it has the authority to do so.

I can sympathize though. As a convert I read myself into the Church before ever going to a mass and was surprised that the Church I fell in love with was the Church from a hundred years ago or so. However, doctrines don’t change and the Church remains Chris’s Church regardless of disciples of fashions changing.

 

[josh987654321]

foxnews.com/world/2017/03/10/pope-francis-open-to-having-some-married-men-become-priests.html

I think we may see this one day in a similar way that Eastern Catholics have it (Must be married before ordination, cannot remarry if widowed, etc…)

I admit I would be interested in this if the Church decided to allow it (I am discerning a vocation in the Deaconate but must wait till 35 before I can officially start the process) I would love to be a priest though I agree that celibacy is the preference for good reasons

Sad. Reminds me of 2 Timothy 4:3, Itching ears. The ‘exceptions’ for ‘small communities’ with priest shortages will become the norm, just as some ‘rare’ exception is used to argue for the legislation of same sex marriage, abortion, euthanasia etc.

Matthew 16:25
*25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. *

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Please pray for the Holy Father and the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. It’s very much needed.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[7_Sorrows]

I understand the allowing of former Anglican clergy who become Catholic to also, after a period of prayer, study, and discernment, become Catholic priests, but if it should become the norm that Catholic priests can be married, the church should probably be prepared to deal with divorced priests. I know of divorced, and sometimes remarried, protestant clergy. How about a dating priest? Perhaps we should be praying more for priests vocations.

I believe as it stands now, if a married priest divorces he is not allowed to remarry. Also, married priests are not limited to the Anglican Ordinariates. Former married priests who have converted and become ordained can be priests in Catholic parishes.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Sad. Reminds me of 2 Timothy 4:3, Itching ears. The ‘exceptions’ for ‘small communities’ with priest shortages will become the norm, just as some ‘rare’ exception is used to argue for the legislation of same sex marriage, abortion, euthanasia etc.

Matthew 16:25
*25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. *

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Please pray for the Holy Father and the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. It’s very much needed.

Thank you for reading
Josh

I just read your posts so I might be confused about divorced priests not remarrying. You are correct I believe about widowed priests not remarrying.

 

[Usagi]

Just some personal musings on these issues (because this question raises many others too so it really isn’t just “one issue” with a question such as this. And I don’t think it is supposed to be just “one issue” with a question like this) . . . .

Does this merely mean more already-married-men being brought into the Priesthood (veri probati)?

Or does it mean single Priests now being able to “date”, various women and marry as a Priest?

Can Priests “court” their parishioners?

It is well established, in those branches of the Church that permit married priests, that one marries before ordination or not at all. If we stick to that, there will be no issues with remarriage or dating.

Can Priests just date women? Or would dating men be OK too (this issue WILL come up. It is not merely hypothetical rhetoric)? How many wives not just in a polygammous sense, but even if your wife dies, can a Priest then take another? If he’s had MORE than ONE wife, can he be ordained to the episcopacy (the Bishops office)?

Because these questions WILL come up. These are not merely rhetorical questions!

The questions might come up, but given that the Church does not approve of homosexual activity and does not recognize same-sex marriages, they are not especially relevant to the issue of ordaining (more) married men to the priesthood.

As noted previously, the tradition is that a married priest whose wife dies may not remarry. A divorced man already cannot remarry so long as his wife lives, and while a lay man might get around that (at least legally) by marrying outside the Church, it seems unlikely a priest would be permitted to do that and remain a priest.

What about Amoris Laetitia and what it does and doesn’t mean?

There is already many **unanswered questions raised by people who are intelectually well formed **concerning Amoris Laetitia, even Bishops and Cardinals are disagreeing about how we are to deal with divorced and remarried laity and reception of Holy Communion.

Pope Francis has publicly said he enjoys “debating” these people who are confused about divorced and remarried people receiving Holy Communion so perhaps we will soon be having this “debate” publicly.

Opening the proverbial floodgates to more married men in the priesthood will force the divorce and remarriage issue to be adequately addressed with authority, because it will be applied to** divorced and remarried Priests**.

Since, again, the tradition is that a priest may not marry after ordination even if he was married and is widowed, rules on divorce and remarriage are unlikely to be relevant.

Even if the Church’s prohibition on Communion by couples in invalid marriages is relaxed (and that is by no means certain), that doesn’t mean that (re)marrying invalidly suddenly becomes okay or is something the Church will solemnize.

Then other associated issues still need to be defined, doubts answered, etc. Issues such as fornication, polygammy, and same sex issues.

Are we really ready to broaden the scope of these issues without dealing with the doubts and questions that already remain?

All of these questions such as polygammy, fornication, same-sex issues, etc. have already been brought into the discussion by Bishops, based upon using principles of Amoris Laetitia they have said.
.

Okay, now I don’t know what you are even talking about. Fornication, polygamy, and same-sex intercourse are forbidden by the Church. That has not and is not going to change, and certainly doesn’t come into play when we talk about validly, monogamously, heterosexually married men being allowed to seek ordination to the priesthood.

 

[Usagi]

Sad. Reminds me of 2 Timothy 4:3, Itching ears. The ‘exceptions’ for ‘small communities’ with priest shortages will become the norm, just as some ‘rare’ exception is used to argue for the legislation of same sex marriage, abortion, euthanasia etc.

Matthew 16:25
*25 For whoever would save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. *

“For the sake of His sorrowful passion, have mercy on us and on the whole world.”

Please pray for the Holy Father and the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. It’s very much needed.

Thank you for reading
Josh

To you and the individual who asked “Where is my Church,” this is not a new or scandalous thing. Popes John Paul II and Benedict both addressed this question, and while they did not see a need to change the discipline, it has always been clear that they could have. (Both did expand the number of married priests in the Church, without causing the disaster you predict.)

Our friends at Catholic Answers, always an orthodox lot, have repeatedly pointed out that the Church could end the practice of ordaining only unmarried men with a snap of its fingers, and that there would be no theological or moral problem with that happening (though the possibility of more general spiritual or practical consequences must of course be taken into account).

 

[Don_Ruggero]

pianistclare:
The question that was attempting to be posted was regarding the Ordinariates founded as a result of Anglicanorum Coetibus.

[It bears stating, however, that the pastoral provision, granted by Pope Saint John Paul II, by which Anglican priests could be ordained by a Catholic bishop for service in the Catholic Church, goes back to the 1980s, actually. These exceptions did not even begin then however; they date back further.]

The question is if the priest you spoke of is disturbed or disquieted by this particular pastoral provision.

 

[ShrodingersCat]

Where did my church go?

The first priests were married and pope Benedict allowed Anglican pastor converts to become priests and remain married. I think. So this ain’t new.

My only problem with married priests is when people suggest it as a solution to sex abuse scandals. Because if you are capable of something like that you have no business being allowed within 10 feet of anything you could potentially abuse and that includes a wife.

And I hate when people say we should listen to celibate men’s opinions, like having sex is some divine epiphany that grants knowledge to people. One can have a perfectly satisfying life and know everything one needs to know about sex from a moral perspective without any experience of such in fact constant struggle with temptation due to celibacy is probably helpful for people who struggle with sexual sin, because the priests understand it. But that is no reason to not allow married priests, it’s just people being silly.

 

[LittleFlower378]

Most Deacons have families. How can someone with a family shepard a parish? I don’t like it. We need more Priests(non married) from the get go, To do that we need more holy families. One way to do that is remind the people coming to Church that they can’t pick and choose what they want to follow or believe in the Church especially when it comes to the Deposit of Faith and the constant teachings of the Church.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Wikipedia: “If a married deacon is widowed, he must maintain the celibate state. Under some very rare circumstances, however, deacons who have been widowed can receive permission to remarry. This is most commonly done when the deacon is left as a single father”.

I wonder how common this actually is? Note the exemption seems to be granted based on the needs of his (young) children, for a mother.

It requires a rescript from the Holy Father. The dossier of the petitioning deacon goes to him for a personal decision.

I remember when Pope Saint John Paul II made this very dramatic change by which an ordained cleric could be allowed to contract marriage. It was either 1993 or 1994. My memories begin to blend when looking back to events in the past, after all the years I have seen.

 

[Cathoholic]

Usagi:

Fornication, polygamy, and same-sex intercourse are forbidden by the Church.

You are correct Usagi.

But these are issues that were brought up by the Bishops with the Synods on the Family (especially the African Bishops) concerning the state of Matrimony.

I agree they ARE forbidden.

I am not talking about those items as “issues” in and of themselves, but rather an extension of “principle”, that’s all. Principles put forth based upon various pastoral interpretations of Amoris Laetitia and its application.

These questions concerning other issues have ALREADY been raised based upon principle concerning the laity.

These issues will be magnified if we have our Priests personally involved to an extent larger than we do.

I am not saying we should or should not allow a broadened use of veri probati (on this thread).

I am just raising questions that have been raised concerning the laity, then applying those same principles to the Priesthood.

If you don’t think they will become an issue concerning married Priests that’s great.

Perhaps you are right. But they HAVE become magnified issues concerning married laity.

If you don’t think veri probati will result in people calling for single already ordained Priests to be allowed to be married too that’s your prediction. I am OK with you thinking that.

 

[WilliamE]

Where did my church go?

It’s being dragged - kicking and screaming - into the 21st Century.

 

[DarkNight]

Where did my church go?

She’s right here and doing fine under the guidance of the Holy Spirit working through Pope Francis!

“Go with Love, Go with God”