A
- Status
D
Darryl1958
Guest
Now that is going to be controversial with some people.
3
3DOCTORS
Guest
I think he’s attempting to foster thoughtfulness and balance by addressing the criticisms often made by both extremes regarding the issue. And he’s spot-on about the people feeling too depressed or selfish to have children, if when one says “depressed” one means feeling depressed because of the prospect of sacrificing some material goods in favor of the love of family. I doubt, too, that the Holy Father would condemn a family who discerned that true mental or extreme financial stress would result from not spacing their children and maybe having fewer of them as long as natural means were used. :twocents: Sometimes the problems people run into in these areas are from not thinking through and discussing these issues in depth before making the marriage commitment.
O
oldcelt
Guest
And should be. Some couples choose not to reproduce because they realize they would not be good parents. This, to me, is no failing, but a virtue…not everyone is meant to be a parent, and that fact should not sentence them to a life of loneliness or lack of intimacy.
B
Bookcat
Guest
Catechism:
1653 The fruitfulness of conjugal love extends to the fruits of the moral, spiritual, and supernatural life that parents hand on to their children by education. Parents are the principal and first educators of their children.164 In this sense the fundamental task of marriage and family is to be at the service of life.165
1654 Spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#V
- The openness to fertility
Code:
Children are the supreme gift of marriage and contribute greatly to the good of the parents themselves. God himself said: "It is not good that man should be alone," and "from the beginning [he] made them male and female"; wishing to associate them in a special way in his own creative work, God blessed man and woman with the words: "Be fruitful and multiply." Hence, true married love and the whole structure of family life which results from it, without diminishment of the other ends of marriage, are directed to disposing the spouses to cooperate valiantly with the love of the Creator and Savior, who through them will increase and enrich his family from day to day.1631654 Spouses to whom God has not granted children can nevertheless have a conjugal life full of meaning, in both human and Christian terms. Their marriage can radiate a fruitfulness of charity, of hospitality, and of sacrifice.
scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c3a7.htm#V
T
TARRAT
Guest
Why to you condemn people to lonliness and lack of intimacy. Do you really mean lives without sex? Your response does not take into account priests and nuns. Most do not live alone however are celibate. Maybe they thought they wouldn’t be good parents and it may have been part of their decision.
I think the Lord is really asking us to, as on TV show put it, be masters of our domain. To take responsibility for lives and live them wholesomely. If you don’t want to have children that is fine the Pope did not say the single life was selfish, but if you are to get married then like Bookcat has presented you should be open to children. Just be really faithful to your decision. No children…stay single and in control of your self, don’t let your body control you. If you want to have children then have all the responsibility and enjoyment that married life brings.
A
AnneElizabeth
Guest
I really hope that a person thinking they might not be a good parent would NOT lead them to religious life. … As that is not what should be leading a person to the religious life. I’m thinking you meant that in another way?
People have this notion that the religious life people are ‘leftovers’ who don’t fit in society. This is not true. Religious orders do not take in just any one. Only a select few get in. Perfect health is one of the criteria. People who are ill often have to live lonely lives- religious orders do not let them in and few choose to marry them due to obvious reasons.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I agree. If some people choose to be career oriented or feel they would not be good parents should not be criticized for their decision. They realize that childrearing requires time. Selfishness could be two parents so involved in their careers and the kids spend the first 5 years of their life in daycare. The parents don’t have time for the kids.
I do know some couples who decided not to have children and regret it as they approach old age and have no grandchildren and no one to leave their inheritance to or look after them in their old age.
Raising children is an important job and requires parent’s time and availability. If you can’t make the sacrifices or feel you don’t have the
tools to be a parent that should be a virtue.
L
LongingSoul
Guest
Nobody is born a bad parent. We just do our best and learn as we go. There is a whole lot of support out there now for parents who want to be better parents. So I think that excuse is just a cop out.
C
Corki
Guest
True, but if someone knows they are not going to be a good parents, he/she is definitely not called to married life either.
A
AnneElizabeth
Guest
Yes. I agree with what you say here. I never stated in my post that they were.
C
Corki
Guest
I was not disagreeing with you, just adding on.
A
AnneElizabeth
Guest
Ok Corki, not a problem… just wanted to make sure I was clear on that. Thanks for adding on.I was not disagreeing with you, just adding on.
R
Ridgerunner
Guest
This seems to make sense, though current society would not agree with it at all. I do know people who are married and say they never want children, and I marvel at it. One is inclined to wonder whether they chose the wrong vocation.
F
FollowChrist34
Guest
How DO you make this guy happy?
L
Lapey
Guest
That “virtue”, as you put it, is not allowed in a sacramental marriage. Openness to children is a prerequisite.
Whose definition of virtue are you using? I’d like to check that one out.
The Pope’s words are filled with truth.
A
AnnieHall
Guest
Was there more to the quote that specified that he meant this for married people or those planning to be married? I’m slightly ashamed to admit when I first saw this headline today, my first thoughts were of nuns, priests, and those living a single life, and that this came across as insensitive to those who remain celibate or are unable to have children. I noticed a few comments also pointing out that the Pope himself is childless. (This was on the fb page of a local newspaper, not a Catholic site).
Once I read beyond the headline though, I got the feeling that this was more about societal attitudes in general rather than saying that every single couple that weds, without exception must do this or else. Of course Catholics and others who marry need to be open to life, and that’s a factor in the larger picture of the whole population. I was wondering after reading that how everyone else interpreted the statement, and if anyone else got the feeling that he was addressing a more general population and attitude of what’s normal in society today (and therefore speaking to everyone, even those that can not or will not physically have children of their own. )
Once I read beyond the headline though, I got the feeling that this was more about societal attitudes in general rather than saying that every single couple that weds, without exception must do this or else. Of course Catholics and others who marry need to be open to life, and that’s a factor in the larger picture of the whole population. I was wondering after reading that how everyone else interpreted the statement, and if anyone else got the feeling that he was addressing a more general population and attitude of what’s normal in society today (and therefore speaking to everyone, even those that can not or will not physically have children of their own. )
A
AnnieHall
Guest
I’m confused about this part of your post. I agree that parenthood isn’t for everyone, and hopefully everyone who chooses to have kids or not to have kids has fully thought it through and has reasoning behind it, and absolutely agree that children should be a priority for all parents. I’m confused about specifically calling out daycare as a sign of selfishness and someone being too involved in their career. I think there are parents who are more involved with their work than they should be, but there are also tons of great and loving and unselfish parents who use child care while they work - whether part time, full time, or extra shifts.
That’s not to say that I don’t think maternity leave shouldn’t be extended - I have a friend from Europe who was able to take 2 years off from work, while receiving a percentage of her pay, and was guaranteed her position back after that time. I think that’s great, and fully support any stay at home parents, but I don’t see how utilizing daycare could be seen as selfish.
7
7_Sorrows
Guest
I know times are different now and many times it takes two incomes. It seems selfish to me to have children and they are left in someone else’s care for 50 or more hours a week. Being a parent is stressful and being a working mom is stressful. If you have a nanny or a private sitter in her home that is a little better than a daycare center.
M
MacBP
Guest
I think the key, here, marriage is a sacrament that has the procreation and education of offspring as an necessary part of marriage. If two individuals loved on another, and desired a sexual relationship with one another, but decide to never have children then those individuals shouldn’t get married because children are an essential part of the vocation to marry. That’s why the Church opposes SSM. Pope Francis is merely being consistent in applying the Church’s teaching.
It should also be noted that while selfish is automatically assumed to be a pejorative, opting to not have children fits the literal definition. It is a decision to put the “self” first and to focus on the the self or selves. If one looks past the pejorative connotation, I don’t think anyone would disagree with Pope Francis’ assessment.
- Status