Pope Francis' Overtures To Protestants

  • Thread starter Thread starter SojournerOnEarth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
exnihilo said:
40.png
SojournerOnEarth:
You seem a decent fellow.

How do we do that?
Click to expand...
As a Catholic I think I enter into dialog, be a good example of the Catholic Faith, and pray. I’m personally not a big fan of ecumenical services. But I do think interacting while doing charitable works is a good way to come together.
Click to expand...
Dialog is good, as long as it is good dialog. There are posters (not you) who are doing a great deal of damage to ecumenical relationships in what they are doing.

I’m not sure ecumenical services in themselves are all that great. It’s what they convey.

And charitable works are also a good way.
 
No reconciliation is possible. These things are affirmed as fundimnetal basics of Protestantism:
There exists no other place of eternal dwellig other than heaven or hell.
Even if such a place the did exist, the idea of paying a bribe to escape it is just moronic.
All clergy regardless of rank have the right to be married.
This is obvious, since the jews were married all the way to the top. (right up to the high priest)
The roman empire is/was an illegitimate and a pagan entity. Rome has no more authority than canturbury or paris or berlin or bern or stockholm or milan or damascus any other place on earth.
 
SojournerOnEarth said:
I thought you people might know a lot more about this situation than I do. I have read a few things; the article is for reference and seemed to cover the main points. It would not surprise me if the Reformed press has completely ignored it.

I am not avoiding the question. Apparently you don’t know the answer either.
Click to expand...
What do you mean , “you people”?!?
 
In all seriousness, I am not sure what your purpose was in opening this thread. It seems as though you are just trying to thumb your nose and say, “Your Pope said the Reformation was justified! And if you disagree with him you are a Protestant! Gotcha!”

If you truly want to know if Catholics celebrate the Protestant Reformation, the answer is no. There is no reason to elaborate.
 
FirstFiveEighth said:
40.png
SojournerOnEarth:
I thought you people might know a lot more about this situation than I do. I have read a few things; the article is for reference and seemed to cover the main points. It would not surprise me if the Reformed press has completely ignored it.

I am not avoiding the question. Apparently you don’t know the answer either.
Click to expand...
What do you mean , “you people”?!?
Click to expand...
People besides me. People familiar with ecumenical relations between Catholics and Protestant. People who have an interest in apologetics of relations between Catholics and Protestants.

No disparagement is intended.
 
FirstFiveEighth said:
In all seriousness, I am not sure what your purpose was in opening this thread. It seems as though you are just trying to thumb your nose and say, “Your Pope said the Reformation was justified! And if you disagree with him you are a Protestant! Gotcha!”

If you truly want to know if Catholics celebrate the Protestant Reformation, the answer is no. There is no reason to elaborate.
Click to expand...
Did you read the whole thread before replying?

It is hard to overcome suspicion.
 
Last edited:
Language may have played a part, but secular politics played a greater part.

The monarchy in Spain at that time wasn’t called the Catholic Monarch for
nothing. Queen Isabella was very interested in spreading the Catholic
Faith and they acknowledged papal temporal authority.

The Kings, Princes, and Lords who ruled areas that became Protestant wanted
independence from the Pope. Those rulers used the teaching of Luther to
convince the people that leaving the Church was good for them.

During the time of Columbus, the Spain was favored by Rome for the new
world because Queen Isabella wanted to spread Catholicism to other parts of
the world. So I’m sure that also ticked off the Swedish, Dutch and English.

In regards to language, Spain’s official language during the time of
Columbus was still Latin, plus the many native languages of the Iberian
Peninsula (Spanish wasn’t even called Spanish yet). So language might have
played a role. Obviously, people who speak Romance languages often can
pick up another one pretty easily. So I’m sure that helped. But still, a
part of current Italy was governed by the Crown of Castile (Spain), so
Queen Isabella had a good grasp on the situation until she died. Then,
after her death, her husband was open to harsher methods to keep order.
 
Last edited:
Anonymous1 said:
No reconciliation is possible. These things are affirmed as fundimnetal basics of Protestantism:
There exists no other place of eternal dwelling other than heaven or hell.
Click to expand...
Protestants got that understanding from the NT and the Catholic Church, and the NT was written in by and for the Catholic Church, the only Church Jesus established on Peter and the apostles united to him.

BTW, purgatory isn’t permanent. Those in purgatory ultimately go to heaven. And no one going to hell goes to purgatory. Purgatory is only for those who die without mortal sin on their soul, and aren’t perfect yet to enter heaven, but through final purification, they then, can enter heaven

1 Cor 3:
"8 He who plants and he who waters are equal, and each shall receive his wages according to his labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers;[a] you are God’s field, God’s building.

10 According to the commission of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another man is building upon it. Let each man take care how he builds upon it. 11 For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble— 13 each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. 14 If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire."

That is the final purification process that occurs after judgement, on the “Day” one dies … assuming they don’t die in mortal sin. If that happens they descend immediately to hell.

I would just mention, division form Our Lord’s Church. has always carried condemnation from scripture. NO ONE can build another church. If you want the scriptures supporting that just ask
40.png
Anonymous1:
All clergy regardless of rank have the right to be married.
This is obvious, since the jews were married all the way to the top. (right up to the high priest)
Click to expand...
If you want to talk about the discipline of celibacy you might open a link on that
40.png
Anonymous1:
The roman empire is/was an illegitimate and a pagan entity. Rome has no more authority than canturbury or paris or berlin or bern or stockholm or milan or damascus any other place on earth.
Click to expand...
Rome as a city is not what we are talking about when we speak of Rome as Catholics. We are referring to the see of Peter. It is a religious sense, not a secular sense.
 
Last edited:
SojournerOnEarth said:
Actually you could study what they believe, from their sources, to get to know what they believe, in order to speak more intelligently and knowledgeably, particularly seeking out those things in the Reformation that the popes have praised as unique insights. You might also come to a better understanding of Catholicism and be better equipped to engage in a respectful dialog with Protestants. Some seem only interested in a mindless antagonism. I have not seen that in you, and I would hope for the best in you, which I think would include what I have just written.
Click to expand...
could you give the source, properly referenced for what is highlighted?

Thanks in advance
 
Last edited:
I’ll look for it. Are you familiar with
From Conflict to Communion ?

It may have been in a speech by any of the last three popes, or in several, or in some other Vatican document. I remember being quite startled when I read it.
 
Thanks SojournerOnEarth, for posting your references. Now we can discuss

2017 marks the 500th year of Protestantism’s inception, and Luther’s revolt. One will notice, Within the documents provided, one theme still remains 500 years after the event that divided Christianity, division remains. Division ≠ reformation. Division = revolt. The Church is always reforming herself. Councils, ecumenical [http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_14388a.htm] and local, are always about reformation. Up to the time of Luther, there were 18 ecumenical councils. Trent the 19th council, was called particularly to address what was going on in Europe as a result of the revolt.

While the docs eloquently state, there are elements that unite us, and those are good elements, and we should keep those in dialogue, yet division(s) of all kinds have only flourished within Protestantism and there is no end to that division in sight… So as the docs point out, prayer is common to us all, and we should ALL be praying and can be praying, together for unity, true unity, not a said unity which isn’t unity at all. Agreed?
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top