Pope Francis restricts celebration of EF Mass by Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate

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It wouldn’t surprise me if Pope Francis didn’t allow new local forms of existing rites to flower.

Pope Benedict added the Anglican Use.

Perhaps some will be allowed from within the catholic church.
Yes but that has to be done extremely carefully. I am not, and never will, be talking about creating a new liturgy in whole or in part from scratch, as so many seem ready and willing to do. As SC says, it must always be done with an eye towards growing or drawing upon existing forms of liturgy and must never be dreamed up. No, I am not particularly alluding to the OF. I am alluding to what people on like PTB would like.

So yes, I think it would be wonderful for the Seraphic Missal, Dominican Rite, etc., to be reintroduced on a widespread basis. I am not familiar with the order politics, but I am just speaking from a liturgical perspective.
 
It’s off-topic, but I don’t think that’s necessarily true. It depends on the configuration of the sanctuary. IOW, if there’s a free-standing altar, it should work without a hitch. It certainly does for the Byzantines. 😉
Note the qualifier “does not always work” 😉

I’ve been to ad orientem Masses in a Benedictine abbey (in Italy), but the set-up was designed in a manner that it was the only really logical way to celebrate the Mass.

At our abbey it wouldn’t work at all. The altar would be entirely hidden not only to the faithful in the nave but the community in the choir as well. There’s also the community dimension to consider, which is important to monastics.

That’s why these issues are best left up to the communities involved. After all it is their conventual Mass and the liturgy is done in a manner to fulfill their spiritual needs.
 
There is something very important here that everyone needs to understand.

When a diocesan priest switches back and forth between the forms of the mass it only affect the laity.

That’s not the case in a religious community. The mass, together with the LOTH, is the center of religious life. Therefore, it’s of the utmost importance that it be celebrated consistently with the charism of the community. The laity attached to the religious house, either as friends or parishioners have to accommodate, because the religious community best serves the Church by fidelity to its charism. Anything out of the ordinary is not part of its charism. If you want to make the extraordinary the ordinary, it requires the consent of the Holy Father.

The one article that I red in the CA’s blog referred to some friars as dissidents. That’s a very unjust and disgraceful insult. It shows the ignorance of the writer.

Communities are governed by the chapter. If the chapter votes on something that anyone believes is in conflict with the rule and the charism of the order, that person, even if it’s only one, has the right to appeal to the Holy See.

A person who exercises his right to appeal is not a dissident.

A person who violates the law is a dissident. I don’t see these same writers calling Msgr Lefebvre or any of the priests of the SSPX dissidents.
 
There is something very important here that everyone needs to understand.

When a diocesan priest switches back and forth between the forms of the mass it only affect the laity.

That’s not the case in a religious community. The mass, together with the LOTH, is the center of religious life. Therefore, it’s of the utmost importance that it be celebrated consistently with the charism of the community. The laity attached to the religious house, either as friends or parishioners have to accommodate, because the religious community best serves the Church by fidelity to its charism. Anything out of the ordinary is not part of its charism. If you want to make the extraordinary the ordinary, it requires the consent of the Holy Father.

The one article that I red in the CA’s blog referred to some friars as dissidents. That’s a very unjust and disgraceful insult. It shows the ignorance of the writer.

Communities are governed by the chapter. If the chapter votes on something that anyone believes is in conflict with the rule and the charism of the order, that person, even if it’s only one, has the right to appeal to the Holy See.

A person who exercises his right to appeal is not a dissident.

A person who violates the law is a dissident. I don’t see these same writers calling Msgr Lefebvre or any of the priests of the SSPX dissidents.
I always appreciate your insight and (name removed by moderator)ut on matters when it comes to religious communities, Bro.

Thank you
 
There is something that I have witnessed time and again the last forty plus years.

Let me preface what I am going to ask by saying that I do not mean to ask my question in a disrespectful manner nor am I looking to start an argument.

Why is it that it seems to be that only things like this happen to religious orders that want to hold onto Tradition?
The first issue is that we - all of us - don’t know the facts of what was going on;; we only know what was reported in the press, and that has a reasonable chance of being not exactly right, and more than a reasonable chance of having only selected some of the facts at play.

The second issue is the statement of “orders that want to hold on to Tradition”. Short of a thorough examination of this order, the likes of which should be given by someone wanting to enter it, we again are subject only to what we read in the press, and occasionally hear on the grapevine. We cannot blanketly say that this was or is an order “that want(s) to hold on to Tradition” meaning that it is an order that wants the EF only, or to a significant majority of the community Masses said.

I have not even heard of this order until today; and I most certainly do not have enough facts to know if, when the order was founded, it was made clear that the EF was to be the primary form that Mass was celebrated in. Lacking that information, it is entirely possible that this was more of a drift, and one caused by those entering rather than by clear leadership.

Anyone who reads Bro. JR will know that the Franciscans run a top-down order , and first and foremost, in the mind of St Francis for directions.

It appears entirely possible this was becoming more of a bottom-up process, one that could appear to be shunting out those who joined the order because a) they were Franciscans, and b) had other charisms which may have included the occasional use of the EF.

But the bottom line is we don’t know the history of this issue; we just know the results. So we are going around making suppositions.
Why is it that an overly liberal superior who is doing harm to the community and/or running the religious order into the ground doesn’t suffer the same fate?
Because, in large part, the liberal orders are not specifically doing something for which there is or are some very specific rules. Much of what has gone on in liberal orders results in an effort similar to trying to drive a nail into water. That is, it can never be pinned down. SP was specific, that the EF was just that - Extraordinary; and the OF was the norm. And yes, there can be circumstances (e.g. FSSP) where the EF is the norm; but that appears in this case to not have been set out from the beginning. In fact, from the extremely few facts which have been given, it appears that what was driving SP - the care of the liturgical needs of people - was in reverse being ignored. SP was released to work to obtain the perceived needs of those who wished to have the EF celebrated. It was not released so that the EF was to replace the OF, and last time I looked around, the vast majority of people seem to prefer the OF. So, also, it would seem, there were those in this order who, when entering the order, knew that the OF was celebrated as well as the EF, and it appears - again, the facts are sketchy - that what was occurring was that the OF was appearing to being phased out.

I am well aware of the fact that there are those who earnestly desire that the OF be done away with (and I don’t consider you to be one of those, nor is it directed to others in this thread). That, however, is clearly not the mind of the Church.
 
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SP was specific, that the EF was just that - Extraordinary; and the OF was the norm. …] It was not released so that the EF was to replace the OF, and last time I looked around, the vast majority of people seem to prefer the OF. So, also, it would seem, there were those in this order who, when entering the order, knew that the OF was celebrated as well as the EF, and it appears - again, the facts are sketchy - that what was occurring was that the OF was appearing to being phased out.

I am well aware of the fact that there are those who earnestly desire that the OF be done away with (and I don’t consider you to be one of those, nor is it directed to others in this thread). That, however, is clearly not the mind of the Church.
Well said. Worth repeating. 👍
 
I stand behind Pope Francis. The more I find out, the more I like this new Pope of ours. 😃

Hopefully closing the gaps and uniting us as Catholics. I think it’s great news.
By owing the gaps you meanin ending the EF? So forceful unity? Should we also apy this to our Eastern brothers so we are united under one Rite only?
 
By owing the gaps you meanin ending the EF? So forceful unity? Should we also apy this to our Eastern brothers so we are united under one Rite only?
If Pope Francis made that decision, I would stand behind him 100% as well. I really like that man, and I trust his judgement completely.
 
Unfortunately, this issue…like most of the issues connected to the so-called EF of the Roman Rite…comes down to the historical problem of ultramontanism, a problem that has been exacerbated by the technological marvels of instant communication.

The traditional understanding of the liturgy is that it was handed down from the apostles. Hence the tradition that the apostles each contributed to the Canon. The pope received this tradition. He was its guardian…not its innovator.

With the rise of the printing press and the development of an awareness that a pope could issue a tweak or modification to the liturgy that would quickly…today, with the internet, instantly…be received throughout the world, slowly and inexorably the mindset developed that the liturgy was, in a very real sense, a plaything that could be modified, changed, altered, adjusted, all at the whim of a pope and/or his appointed commission(s). The results have been disastrous.

Coupled with this mindset is the problem that it has become exceedingly difficult for Rome ever to admit that something was a bad idea. Hence the virtual canonization of the post-Vatican II innovations and, truth be told, the historically bizarre idea that every pope is almost overnight a Venerable, a Blessed, a Saint (this didn’t happen in the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, just to give recent examples from the historical perspective).
 
Lacking that information, it is entirely possible that this was more of a drift, and one caused by those entering rather than by clear leadership.

Anyone who reads Bro. JR will know that the Franciscans run a top-down order , and first and foremost, in the mind of St Francis for directions.

It appears entirely possible this was becoming more of a bottom-up process, one that could appear to be shunting out those who joined the order because a) they were Franciscans, and b) had other charisms which may have included the occasional use of the EF.
Apparently the promotion of the EF within the FFI began with the General Chapter, which sounds very important (the top of their hierarchy? I don’t know). But it wasn’t bottom-up, for sure.

Here’s a great article about them from last year:

eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2012/08/18-young-novices-are-vested-in.html
Wednesday, August 15, 2012

**18 Young Novices Are Vested in the Franciscans of the Immaculata **

(Avellino) On the 1st of August a investiture of the new novices took place for the Franciscans of the Immaculata. 18 young women were given the habit in the tradition bound cloister in the presence of the General Superior of the Franciscans of the Immaculata, Father Stefano Maria Manelli, at the Pilgrimage site of the Madonna del Buon Consiglio of Frigento in Avellino, Italy. For the occasion, Father Gabriele Pellettieri said Holy Mass in the Immemorial Rite.

The sight of such a large number of young women, receiving the veil of a religious order, has become a rarity in Europe. Before the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, allowed by Pope Benedict XVI, the women’s branch of this young, tradition bound Franciscan order has had about 10 entrants to its Italian novitiate yearly. Since then their population has almost doubled, as the blog Cordialiter noted.

“The classical form of the Roman Rite is a true treasure for the Church, it increases priestly and religious vocations. Should the trend hold, in 50 years the majority will be of the new, tradition bound orders or old orders, who have been restored to tradition”, says Cordialiter.

The Franciscans of the Immaculata were founded in 1982 as a women’s branch of the Franciscan Order of the Immaculata founded in 1970 by two friars. In the beginning of the 80s a group of young women decided to lead a Franciscan and Marian life a severity. The first convent was formed from the Philippines and received recognition by the Diocese through the Archbishop of Manila. In 1988 three sisters founded the first convent in Italy, which was recognized by the Archabbot of Monte Cassino. In 1998, Papal recognition as Society of Apostolic Life was given.

At the present there are more than 300 sisters worldwide in 47 houses, of which 15 are found in Europe…
 
Apparently the promotion of the EF within the FFI began with the General Chapter, which sounds very important (the top of their hierarchy? I don’t know). But it wasn’t bottom-up, for sure.

Here’s a great article about them from last year:

eponymousflower.blogspot.com/2012/08/18-young-novices-are-vested-in.html
Wednesday, August 15, 2012

**18 Young Novices Are Vested in the Franciscans of the Immaculata **
I did not get the impression that the Pope’s directive was specifically aimed at these sisters. Rather, it was to the friars who were celebrating the EF exclusively, replacing the OF and keeping the EF as its primary celebration.
 
The more that I and other Franciscans read what lay people and some secular priests are saying about this, the more that we Franciscans, including the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are annoyed and dismayed.

People seem more concerned about the form of the mass used by a religious community than by the charism of the religious community.

What is happening here?

Have people lost sight of what is the highest priority of a religious order or are people more concerned about what they can get from a religious order than the charism of the order?

Let’s stop and think this through, because many people responding here are on a slippery slope.
 
I did not get the impression that the Pope’s directive was specifically aimed at these sisters. Rather, it was to the friars who were celebrating the EF exclusively, replacing the OF and keeping the EF as its primary celebration.
Neither did I, but it’s a nice article someone brought to my attention. Some people here have said they never heard of the FFI. It’s a little “get to know them” piece.
 
The more that I and other Franciscans read what lay people and some secular priests are saying about this, the more that we Franciscans, including the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are annoyed and dismayed.

People seem more concerned about the form of the mass used by a religious community than by the charism of the religious community.

What is happening here?

Have people lost sight of what is the highest priority of a religious order or are people more concerned about what they can get from a religious order than the charism of the order?

Let’s stop and think this through, because many people responding here are on a slippery slope.
Well, brother I’m sorry you feel the privacy of your order is being invaded. I certainly wish to retract any rash judgments I have made.

With all respect though, the Mass is what’s on the table here. It’s what people are going to talk about. The charism isn’t up for discussion as far as I can see, so no one’s discussing it. I’m not sure there’s more to it than that.
 
Well, brother I’m sorry you feel the privacy of your order is being invaded. I certainly wish to retract any rash judgments I have made.

With all respect though, the Mass is what’s on the table here. It’s what people are going to talk about. The charism isn’t up for discussion as far as I can see, so no one’s discussing it. I’m not sure there’s more to it than that.
Well the charism needs to be part of the discussion because we’re talking about a conventual Mass, and the impact of the Mass form on the health and unity of the community.

Well, actually, we shouldn’t even be having a discussion on this. It’s an internal, family matter. Imagine someone coming into your home and dictating how to run your household… it’s exactly that.
 
The more that I and other Franciscans read what lay people and some secular priests are saying about this, the more that we Franciscans, including the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate are annoyed and dismayed.

People seem more concerned about the form of the mass used by a religious community than by the charism of the religious community.

What is happening here?

Have people lost sight of what is the highest priority of a religious order or are people more concerned about what they can get from a religious order than the charism of the order?

Let’s stop and think this through, because many people responding here are on a slippery slope.
Can you not understand why the laity or secular priests are concerned? Since the beginning of Francis’ pontificate there have been fears regarding his views regarding the traditional Mass and to the public eye, this is only making us more weary. There seems to be an attitude from some that celebrating the old rite is wrong. If as Benedict XVI said, the 2 rites are one in the same, a lot of us are asking, then why the constant attacks on the traditional Mass?
 
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