Pope Francis says Church must accompany gays, not discriminate [CNA]

[CNA_News]

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/i...redit_Edward_Pentin_CNA_CNA_6_26_16.jpgAboard the papal plane, Jun 26, 2016 / 03:24 pm (CNA/EWTN News).- In a wide-ranging inflight press conference on his way back from Armenia on Sunday, Pope Francis responded to a question on recent comments made by Cardinal Reinhard Marx, who said the Church must apologize to homosexual persons for having “marginalized” them.

Francis agreed that the Church ought to apologize in cases of discrimination against individuals struggling with same-sex attraction, and referred to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which emphasizes the need to accompany and respect these persons.

“I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally,” the Pope said June 26 on board his return flight from Armenia to Rome.

The problem is “a person that has a condition,” he said, but, echoing his comment on the way back from Rio de Janiero in 2013, noted that that if the person “has good will and who seeks God, who are we to judge?”

“We must accompany them well…this is what the catechism says, a clear catechism.”

Pope Francis spoke to some 70 journalists aboard his flight from Armenia, which he visited June 24-26.

While there, he met with the country’s president Serzh Sargsyan and visited memorial sites honoring those fallen during the Metz Yeghérn, also called the Armenian Genocide. He also met privately and signed a joint declaration with Catholicos Karekin II, head of the Armenian Apostolic Church.

In the course of the hour-long conversation with journalists, Francis touched on topics including Brexit, female deacons, Christian unity, and the role of the Pope emeritus.

He was asked his opinion on comments made by Cardinal Reinhard Marx of Munich and Freising on Thursday at a conference in Dublin titled “The Role of Church in a Pluralist Society: Good Riddance or Good Influence?”

During the conference, held at Trinity College, the cardinal said that “the history of homosexuals in our societies is very bad because we’ve done a lot to marginalize (them).”

Full article…

 

[Puppy_Jack]

I love this Pope! I hope the next 5 popes are Jesuits.

 

[2PT3]

Perhaps he should have simply said this: “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination.”

Or this: “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Or this: “Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.”

 

[jimcav]

Perhaps he should have simply said this: “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination.”

Or this: “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Or this: “Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.”

Well said!.

Somebody wake me up when we are done apologizing to everyone…

There used to be a saying during the Cold War - *“loose lips sinks ships”. *Words to live by…

 

[Trader]

Perhaps he should have simply said this: “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination.”

Or this: “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Or this: “Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.”

More in the style of Pope Francis would be:
And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go and from now on sin no more.”
John 8:11

For some reason too many people stop at the semicolon.

 

[StudentMI]

For the love of God, he was saying something encouraging and intending to foster pastoral outreach to people who have been scorned and condemned just for having feelings they can’t control. And of course people get upset.

 

[total_Catholic]

The liberal media, again, takes one part of a Papal speech to attempt to twist it to their liking.

 

[StudentMI]

The liberal media, again, takes one part of a Papal speech to attempt to twist it to their liking.

What liberal media?! It’s a CNA/EWTN article!

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Perhaps he should have simply said this: “If a man lies with a male as with a woman, they have committed an abomination.”

Or this: “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.”

Or this: “Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper.”

Completely missing the point except for the part where you proved it…

 

[abucs]

Cindy Wooden, CNS: Holiness, within the past few days Cardinal Marx, the German, speaking at a large conference in Dublin which is very important on the Church in the modern world, said that the Catholic Church must ask forgiveness to the gay community for having marginalized these people. In the days following the shooting in Orlando, many have said that the Christian community had something to do with this hate toward these people. What do you think?

My preferred answer. No i think that it is incorrect to suggest this. We have to honestly look into the thinking of the person who carried out this evil and suggesting that the local Christian community was a factor in his actions is an incredible position.

It unfortunately feeds into an anti-Christian mindset that really needs to be challenged in Western countries because it is unfair, incorrect and in the long run detrimental to our civilization. Would you like me to explain further?

 

[pnewton]

Completely missing the point except for the part where you proved it…

I love this summary. Not just here, and not just homosexuality, but human nature drives us to want to be superior to someone else, anyone else. Nothing in the Bible contradicts one bit what the Pope said, just like nothing Jesus said meant adultery was okey-dokey.

 

[Maximilan_Kolbe]

I love this summary. Not just here, and not just homosexuality, but human nature drives us to want to be superior to someone else, anyone else. Nothing in the Bible contradicts one bit what the Pope said, just like nothing Jesus said meant adultery was okey-dokey.

I agree with you in this about scripture, but I suspect some people question the message because we never hear things like " Church must accompany adulterers, not discriminate."

It seems as though the Church is allowing itself to be cornered and overly focus on something (homosexuality) by the group that wants the Church’s attention. All of society is, IMO.

 

[Havard]

We say a lot of damaging things in the spirit of instruction and admonition.

That does not mean instruction and admonition are to be tossed out the window. It means we need to be better bearers of the Word. We need to pray for increasing humility of our own faults, patience of those of others, and above all, charity.

OTOH instruction/admonition is not judgment. We do not need to be “without sin” to perform works of mercy.

So I encourage people who are not keen on instruction/admonition to reconsider, and likewise people who think there is never a problem with the way we engage others to reconsider.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

I love this summary. Not just here, and not just homosexuality, but human nature drives us to want to be superior to someone else, anyone else. Nothing in the Bible contradicts one bit what the Pope said, just like nothing Jesus said meant adultery was okey-dokey.

You should read patheos.com/blogs/catholicauthenticity/2016/06/the-shocking-truth-about-homosexuality-that-youve-only-heard-1000-times-before/

Melinda Selmys (someone who has spoken on Catholic Answers Live) wrote an excellent article on it.

 

[Havard]

You should read patheos.com/blogs/catholicauthenticity/2016/06/the-shocking-truth-about-homosexuality-that-youve-only-heard-1000-times-before/

Melinda Selmys (someone who has spoken on Catholic Answers Live) wrote an excellent article on it.

Interesting read for sure, but doesn’t reflect my experience AT ALL. I have never heard (or heard of) a homily about homosexuality in my entire life, and I’ve lived in a range of dioceses/regions. Maybe I never went far enough into the “Bible belt”? I did once hear a homily praising Brokeback Mountain and Harvey Milk, but that’s another story. And I’ve never seen any “nagging” as she refers to it, in my life. Who does she know that says anything like “intrinsic disorder/evil” to their gay friends, really? Even gruff, curmudgeonly Catholics generally employ kindness and sensitivity. I can only guess that she is confusing theological debates with actual pastoral encounters, because that’s the only thing that makes her perception make sense to me.

 

[JosieN]

Interesting read for sure, but doesn’t reflect my experience AT ALL. I have never heard (or heard of) a homily about homosexuality in my entire life, and I’ve lived in a range of dioceses/regions. Maybe I never went far enough into the “Bible belt”? I did once hear a homily praising Brokeback Mountain and Harvey Milk, but that’s another story. And I’ve never seen any “nagging” as she refers to it, in my life. Who does she know that says anything like “intrinsic disorder/evil” to their gay friends, really? Even gruff, curmudgeonly Catholics generally employ kindness and sensitivity. I can only guess that she is confusing theological debates with actual pastoral encounters, because that’s the only thing that makes her perception make sense to me.

I have to agree. I have never heard (or heard of) a homily about homosexuality in my entire life. I agree that homosexuals, like all sinners need compassion. But if the sinner wants acceptance and not forgiveness, I think they may be seeking approval and not forgiveness. I believe we should approach every sinner with compassion, kindness and love but the goal should be to guide them in the ways of the Church and teach them about the love Jesus has to offer them. When they choose His ways over the ways of this world, their hearts and lives will be at peace and they will obtain through Christ what they truly need.

 

[lax16]

Interesting read for sure, but doesn’t reflect my experience AT ALL. I have never heard (or heard of) a homily about homosexuality in my entire life, and I’ve lived in a range of dioceses/regions. Maybe I never went far enough into the “Bible belt”? I did once hear a homily praising Brokeback Mountain and Harvey Milk, but that’s another story. And I’ve never seen any “nagging” as she refers to it, in my life. Who does she know that says anything like “intrinsic disorder/evil” to their gay friends, really? Even gruff, curmudgeonly Catholics generally employ kindness and sensitivity. I can only guess that she is confusing theological debates with actual pastoral encounters, because that’s the only thing that makes her perception make sense to me.

Agreed. Where I live, the two Catholic high schools are very accepting of gay students. In fact, not only are they among some of the most popular kids in school, they also win many of highest awards.

I’ve heard several students say they feel they are given special treatment.

I could list numerous examples of Catholics going way out of their way to be kind to homosexuals. I don’t get what Pope Francis is trying to say here. Maybe it’s different in his neck of the woods? Maybe he isn’t referring to Catholics only?

 

[JosieN]

I my previous post I meant to say:

If the sinner wants acceptance and not guidance, I think they may be seeking approval and not forgiveness.

I should have read it over better before I posted .

 

[xNoOnex]

Discrimination and marginalization of homosexuals, at least in the Catholic community isn’t obvious. It’s more subtle and I’d argue, subconscious.

On the forum, at least, and in my experience with Christians in general, is a lot of people focus on the act of sex, excessively. It doesn’t help that certain elements of the LGBT community don’t help matters but a lot of people seem to downplay the human aspect of same-sex attraction.

It isn’t all about sex. Homosexuals want the same things most heterosexuals do. They want love, companionship, and someone to come home to at the end of the day. It’s something that most people long for. And homosexuals in Christian communities don’t just get told they can’t get married or have sex. A lot feel that they are not even allowed to enter chaste relationships and some argue they can’t.

For a lot of people, its a heavy cross to carry and it makes them lose faith. Especially when people who judge them can engage in relationships.

 

[JosieN]

Discrimination and marginalization of homosexuals, at least in the Catholic community isn’t obvious. It’s more subtle and I’d argue, subconscious.

On the forum, at least, and in my experience with Christians in general, is a lot of people focus on the act of sex, excessively. It doesn’t help that certain elements of the LGBT community don’t help matters but a lot of people seem to downplay the human aspect of same-sex attraction.

It isn’t all about sex. Homosexuals want the same things most heterosexuals do. They want love, companionship, and someone to come home to at the end of the day. It’s something that most people long for. And homosexuals in Christian communities don’t just get told they can’t get married or have sex. A lot feel that they are not even allowed to enter chaste relationships and some argue they can’t.

For a lot of people, its a heavy cross to carry and it makes them lose faith. Especially when people who judge them can engage in relationships.

It is a heavy cross to carry, but many of us carry heavy crosses in our lives, but we should not let the crosses we carry cause us to sin. We should accept the burden out of love for Jesus. This is our belief. There are many examples of crosses we carry that other religions don’t. Catholics cannot use artificial birth control, you are to use Natural Family Planning, Catholics cannot divorce and remarry even if you no longer love your spouse, (unless the first marriage was not valid). You cannot get an abortion,you cannot live together before marriage, or have pre-marital sex etc. My parents had a large family. I am sure it was a heavy cross for them to carry. This is the Catholic Faith, and we believe it to be the true one. Many other Christian churches are open to homosexual relationships. I think acceptance can be found there. We are called to live for Christ, not for ourselves. I hope you can understand.