Pope Francis tells Congress ‘every life is sacred,’ says the death penalty should be abolished

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It seems that the Pope has once again pressed for the end of the death penalty. Because of past discussions on the subject I know that many catholics are in favour of this.

Perhaps now the subject will finally be put to rest and people will understand that the deliberate killing of a human life, as in the death penalty, is wrong.
It is not prudent to do at this time, but that act itself is not an immoral one.

So if you are saying that it is wrong in that it has the potential to put God’s Justice in a hypocritical light, and therefore should not be used, I agree 100% with you.

If you are saying that it is wrong, in that it is an immoral act itself, then both I and the Church disagree with you.
 
It seems that the Pope has once again pressed for the end of the death penalty. Because of past discussions on the subject I know that many catholics are in favour of this.

Perhaps now the subject will finally be put to rest and people will understand that the deliberate killing of a human life, as in the death penalty, is wrong.
Yes the Church has been saying for a while now that it is cruel and unnecessary. Pope St JPII, Pope Benedict and Pope Francis have all expressed the strongest aversion to the use of it in todays world.
 
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It is not prudent to do at this time, but that act itself is not an immoral one.
So if you are saying that it is wrong in that it has the potential to put God’s Justice in a hypocritical light, and therefore should not be used, I agree 100% with you.

If you are saying that it is wrong, in that it is an immoral act itself, then both I and the Church disagree with you.**

The United States is the only Christian country in the western world that still has Capital Punishment…there are non Christian countries …communist countries and some third world countries that still apply the death penalty…to say that it isn’t prudent at this time appears to only apply here in the US…all other western countries including Catholic countries have done away with it…so while it not an immoral act according to the church the last three Popes have spoken out against it…yet why are so many US Catholics opposed to their teaching…is it more cultural here than elsewhere…Protestant Puritan ethics played a large part in the formation of the United States…maybe “an eye for an eye” is still more ingrained in the culture here than other countries…I can’t say I am totally opposed to the death penalty myself in certain cases like terrorism or serial killers or even
cold blooded cases where there is no remorse…I’m sure there are people in those countries that have done away with the death penalty who feel the same also
 
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The United States is the only Christian country in the western world that still has Capital Punishment**
Is the USA really a Christian country? Apart from probably Malta and possibly Poland, are there any other countries in the West that can really be described sd Christian countries? Are countries in the West governed by laws that are Christian in nature? By their fruits you shall know them.
 
They’re aren’t many countries who still have the death penalty, about two thirds of countries in the world have now abolished it.
 
*Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent” (68).*

*68: John Paul II, Evangelium vitae 56

tl;dr - if it’s the only option, then it’s fine. But at this point we’re reaching the time where it’s hardly ever the only option.
 
I think the Pope is wrong in this area. I think the state has a duty to punish criminals, not just to separate them from the population. For crimes like murder and rape, the only commensurate punishment is death.
 
I think the Pope is wrong in this area. I think the state has a duty to punish criminals, not just to separate them from the population. For crimes like murder and rape, the only commensurate punishment is death.
My father got away with beating me as a child. When I was 18, he was tried and found guilty of sexually assaulting (raping) the woman he was married to when I was 18.

You know what? Based on the stories I’ve heard, I’m much more satisfied about his little vacation more than I was if there was capital punishment. Lets just say payment was rendered, and he’ll have to live with said payment for the rest of his life. I’m sure when he goes to sleep, he very well remember what happened to him in prison, and he’ll live with that for the rest of us life.
 
I wish Pope has urged US to deal with the problem of ISIS who execute death penalty to many innocent Christians and created international problems.
 
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The United States is the only Christian country in the western world that still has Capital Punishment…there are non Christian countries …communist countries and some third world countries that still apply the death penalty…to say that it isn’t prudent at this time appears to only apply here in the US…all other western countries including Catholic countries have done away with it…so while it not an immoral act according to the church the last three Popes have spoken out against it…yet why are so many US Catholics opposed to their teaching…is it more cultural here than elsewhere…**

I’m not too sure it is cultural. So while it is quite true that the recent Popes have (rightly) urged nations not to make use of the death penalty, Pope Benedict, at least, also noted that holding a different opinion is not contrary to Church teaching
Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. There may be legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not… with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
 
My father got away with beating me as a child. When I was 18, he was tried and found guilty of sexually assaulting (raping) the woman he was married to when I was 18.

You know what? Based on the stories I’ve heard, I’m much more satisfied about his little vacation more than I was if there was capital punishment. Lets just say payment was rendered, and he’ll have to live with said payment for the rest of his life. I’m sure when he goes to sleep, he very well remember what happened to him in prison, and he’ll live with that for the rest of us life.
You weren’t the person he raped. Did you ask her opinion?
 
*Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor.

If, however, non-lethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete condiutions of the common good and more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.

Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity “are very rare, if not practically nonexistent” (68)*.

*68: John Paul II, Evangelium vitae 56

tl;dr - if it’s the only option, then it’s fine. But at this point we’re reaching the time where it’s hardly ever the only option.
Not only now a days are many different options but it is impossible to fully determine the accused.partys responsibility, hence many innocent people end.up being put to death which is one of the Popes points. The legal system in fact doesn’t even attempt to establish full.responsibility as that is impossible. Starting right there is wrong according to the catechism.because it is impossible.to establish full.responsibility.
 
You weren’t the person he raped. Did you ask her opinion?
Imagine for a moment, that you are a child whose father told that you were an accident. That your father said he wished you were dead. That he was ashamed you did not inherit his language skills. That he beat you when you did anything wrong or if he was having a bad day. That him and his new wife cared for the children she born for him, other than myself and my sister. That my sister and I were given a box of cereal, and that was our lunches throughout the weekend.

And imagine, one night, when your father pulls you off the couch and begins tormenting you physically. He pins you down so you can’t move. He slaps you across the face multiple times, roaring at you while you’re hysterically crying because that is a sign of weakness.

And imagine that wife, sitting on a chair. Not doing a damn thing to stop any of this from happening. She sits there with an impassive look on her face, not moving an inch, not saying a word. She did not see me in my room after, she did not check up on me.

During the child abuse trial, my father lied on the witness stand, under oath. This should come as no surprise, he’s obviously a psychopath since he abuses children and is a sexual predator. What also happened is that woman who sat there and did nothing, she too committed perjury during the child abuse trial - she lied after swearing on the Good Book that nothing happened that night, or any night. She did so to protect that man.

Eventually that came to bite her in the ***; he sexually assaulted her. I’m also not stupid, there’s such a thing as systematic behavior. My mom will never say what happened in their marriage, but it’s not hard to extrapolate that she was raped too (she did a non-confirmation confirmation. Understandably, she didn’t want to talk about it, especially to her son. I’m an adult, but still her son), meaning that I could have been brought about by rape.

Which brings my father’s scoreboard to:
  • My mother, his second wife, sexually assaulted.
  • Myself, physically abused.
  • My sister, abused.
  • His third ex-wife, sexually assaulted.
  • His fourth wife, allegedly cheated on her with her sister, or so I heard through the grapevine.
My father is a psychopath, he sows destruction wherever he goes. So yes, I am in a position to say I’d rather him not be put to death. Partially because I know what happened to him in prison (people found out why he was there, and what he did to his children in the past, plus he has a big mouth). Both my mother and I feel that him being in prison was sufficient. Would we have liked him locked up longer? Hell yes! Do we want him dead? No, we don’t.

Not that I didn’t want him dead for years, mind you. Rage against him consumed me for years before my reversion back to Catholicism. At some point, I realized that the deliberate effort myself to want him dead is simple revenge. It’s nothing more than the State being an extension of my will at that point.

I want him alive. He’ll never have remorse, I accept that. Short of a miracle on the level of Saul becoming Paul, he’ll never change, and I accept that. I still want him alive. Because people like my father, psychopaths, have a long memory. They recall things as if it happened yesterday. And now, for the rest of his Earthly life, my father will replay what happened to him within the walls of that prison. To me, that is sufficient justice.

Mind you, all of this begs the question; what crimes are worthy of being put to death? Could one not say that what he did to me was sufficient, thereby making it not just rape and murder?
 
Look, this issue has been done to death (sorry for the pun) and the debates on this issue tend to get very ugly very fast.

The death penalty is not an intrinsic evil, and can be used if the guilty party;s identity is established with certainty, and there is no other means to protect society (2267 of the Catechism).

If non-lethal means are just as good, or better, at achieving the goals of punishment and protecting society, then society should limit itself to these, as they would then be more consistent with respect for life.

Whether non-lethal means are sufficient is a matter of debate.

Same as shooting a man who broke into your house, you have the right, in principle, to kill him to protect your family, but should not unless it is the ONLY way you can protect your family.

I rest my case.
 
My father is a psychopath, he sows destruction wherever he goes. So yes, I am in a position to say I’d rather him not be put to death. Partially because I know what happened to him in prison (people found out why he was there, and what he did to his children in the past, plus he has a big mouth). Both my mother and I feel that him being in prison was sufficient. Would we have liked him locked up longer? Hell yes! Do we want him dead? No, we don’t.
It sounds like you’re saying you don’t like the death penalty, but prison rape is okay. I don’t understand people that will condemn the “death penalty” but will acquiesce in, what is arguably, a greater crime, the systematic rape and brutalization in prison of some criminals.
Mind you, all of this begs the question; what crimes are worthy of being put to death? Could one not say that what he did to me was sufficient, thereby making it not just rape and murder?
I said “crimes like murder and rape”. That was not intended to exclude other particularly heinous crimes.
 
I used to be for the death penalty until I understood why the Church is against it. Now I’m against it. Not a popular opinion where I live. Everyone is “eye for an eye” around here.
 
It sounds like you’re saying you don’t like the death penalty, but prison rape is okay. I don’t understand people that will condemn the “death penalty” but will acquiesce in, what is arguably, a greater crime, the systematic rape and brutalization in prison of some criminals.
I never mentioned prison rape, did I? There’s a lot of things that happen in prison, such as solitary confinement and the lack of personal freedom or privacy. The lack of material possessions. That he would have no respect given to him, and that there’s no one to exert control over. A man of rage and vindictiveness, and all that’s there is a bunch of people who are immune. All of his education and skills at manipulation would not serve him in the slightest.

I’m not quite sure why you feel the need to diminish my perspective on this issue, and wonder if I was pro-vengeance if you would be more inclined to not diminish what I have said.

Also, I’d like to know which crimes should be punishable by death.
 
I think the Pope is wrong in this area. I think the state has a duty to punish criminals, not just to separate them from the population. For crimes like murder and rape, the only commensurate punishment is death.
Church teaching doesn’t endorse the death penalty to be used as a retributive punishment. The Church teaches that capital punishment should only be used if there are no other means available to protect the public from serious risk.

Pope Francis is simply reiterating Church teaching relating to the situation we find ourselves in today, where we do seem to have the means to protect the public from murderers by using means other than putting people to death.

As has also been said, John Paul II wrote very clearly on this as well.

So as far as Catholic teaching is concerned (and Catholic teaching represents absolute truth) Pope Francis is right on this.
 
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