Pope Francis tells couples not to substitute dogs and cats for children

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lutheran_farmer said:
We used to call them yuppies in the '80s.

In an era when some women shop for a doctor that is willing to do a hysterectomy on them while they are still in their 20s, ‘because they hate children’ I think Pope Francis has a good point. He also addressed infertility with sympathy.

I used to board my horse at a public stable and will never forget how many bitter, older women I met there who had nothing but a horse to devote themselves to in their twilight years. Sometimes it was because of divorce or other sad event, but many chose their horses over meaningful relationships with people. They said things like, "I don’t trust people’ or ‘I prefer animals to people’. Even to the point where one women thought it was perfectly fine to send a restless toddler in with a cranky old horse to ‘teach her a lesson’. Obviously, someone intervened. She failed to see the value in children so much that she thought that was appropriate. Perhaps some of those women were selfish and perhaps others were deeply hurt by their own families. Maybe that’s why this is such a touchy topic for some people. For those not being selfish, but feel unable to overcome their past enough to offer love to children, they have my sympathy. I believe the Holy Father was addressing those who choose out of selfishness rather than emotional barriers.
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Things sure have changed since Populorum Progressio, when the focus was on overpopulation.
 
It still does not follow that people who chose not to have children are going to end up bitter and lonely. I know plenty in my line of work and they have no regrets.

Again I know what he is trying to say, he just isn’t saying it well.

It’s a faulty agrument and people see that.

One is not necessarily a consequence of the other. It s not a logical argument 🤷

What álso makes it faulty is the idea that all women have strong maternal drives and all men have strong paternal drives.

That too is simply faulty thinking
 
My wife and I can say with a clear conscious that we entered into our marriage 29 years ago fully intending to start a family.

However, as it turns out we were not able to have “two-legged children”. So have two dogs. We call them “the kids” and we pretend like they talk to us and call us “Mom” and “Dad”.

I fully understand that dogs are no substitute for children but is the closest thing to a family that God has provided to us.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
My wife and I can say with a clear conscious that we entered into our marriage 29 years ago fully intending to start a family.

However, as it turns out we were not able to have “two-legged children”. So have two dogs. We call them “the kids” and we pretend like they talk to us and call us “Mom” and “Dad”.

I fully understand that dogs are no substitute for children but is the closest thing to a family that God has provided to us.
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👍

And God is good and giving you stewardship over part of His creation also gives Him glory.

Will never understand the devaluing other creatures of His Wonderous creation in order to raise up humans. 🤷 It’s as if there is some sort of competetion going on sometimes.

I dont find it necessary. All creation is of God and all of it is good. All of it manifests different aspect of Him and all, in it’s own way, give Him glory.

Im fine with that. No need to complete or pin one against another as far as I am concerned
 
ProVobis said:
I wonder how Pope Benedict received this bit of news.
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last I checked, he was never married, what does this have to do with what the Pope said to marriage couples? I’ve seen a few that don’t have children and sub in pets as their babies. I love animals and pets are great companions for many reasons even to those of us with children. Pope’s comments was directed at not fulling God’s call on couples to have children and not use pets instead of children. It’s that simple.
 
Lost_Sheep said:
My wife and I can say with a clear conscious that we entered into our marriage 29 years ago fully intending to start a family.

However, as it turns out we were not able to have “two-legged children”. So have two dogs. We call them “the kids” and we pretend like they talk to us and call us “Mom” and “Dad”.

I fully understand that dogs are no substitute for children but is the closest thing to a family that God has provided to us.
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I don’t think the Pope was directing his comments to couples that were unable for whatever reason to have biological children.
 
John_Lazarus said:
My God, people, the Holy Father was aiming his speech at MARRIED COUPLES who CHOOSE NOT TO HAVE KIDS so they can LIVE A COMFY, ‘CAREFREE’ LIFE. He did NOT aim it at couples who **can’t **have kids, or single folks, or widowers, or people who have kids and pets, or (and this makes my head spin :whacky:) Pope Benedict.

It never ceases to amaze me how people try to put words in another person’s mouth, especially when that mouth is Pope Francis.
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exactly the point!
 
robwar said:
I don’t think the Pope was directing his comments to couples that were unable for whatever reason to have biological children.
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But could this conceivably mean that we should have adopted children instead?
 
He was probably more addressing the culture in Europe on this point. Germany, Italy, France… those countries have long had low birth rates and a culture that welcomes dogs as if they were children. Dogs go to restuarants and bars and loads of public places we wouldn’t want to share with them. Childless or one child families are really common as a lfestyle choice.
 
LongingSoul said:
He was probably more addressing the culture in Europe on this point. Germany, Italy, France… those countries have long had low birth rates and a culture that welcomes dogs as if they were children. Dogs go to restuarants and bars and loads of public places we wouldn’t want to share with them. Childless or one child families are really common as a lfestyle choice.
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Thanks for sharing that contextual insight. 🙂
 
Lost_Sheep said:
But could this conceivably mean that we should have adopted children instead?
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I honestly don’t think anyone can answer that for you and your spouse but you. That is the route my husband and I took but I realize that not all couples unable to conceive their own biological children can and should go on to adopt. I also don’t think what the Pope was speaking about is in anyway directed to couples in your situation. We have pets and pets enhance our family life very much. Pets are wonderful companions for those who live alone etc. The Pope was speaking to a culture that has become very selfish and not so child friendly to the point where pets are treated better than children and maybe preferred over children. It is that to which the Pope was speaking and not particular situations where there is infertility and a couple can’t but does have pets.
 
robwar said:
The Pope was speaking to a culture that has become very selfish and not so child friendly to the point where pets are treated better than children and maybe preferred over children. It is that to which the Pope was speaking and not particular situations where there is infertility and a couple can’t but does have pets.
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In that context, that makes a great deal of sense as to what his point was. 🙂
 
Wouldnt the couple just get more pets or replace them to combat loneliness of old age? And if the couple grows old together, wouldn’t they have each other?
 
HoneyBea said:
Seriously! It couldn’t be any clearer, not sure how people can misconstrue what the Pope is saying here.
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The pope is implying that people without kids will be bitter and lonely in old age. That implication applies to single people and infeftile couples, obviously.
 
Thorns said:
Wouldnt the couple just get more pets or replace them to combat loneliness of old age? And if the couple grows old together, wouldn’t they have each other?
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Usually one dies before the other. But then pets die and kids leave long before that.
 
ProVobis said:
Usually one dies before the other. But then pets die and kids leave long before that.
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Very true. Kids start their own families and leave and sometimes move far away, states and countries apart. Animals are replaceable though. So the same situation exists whether one has children or not. Probably not the best example to use to promote the goodness of having children.
 
In an age-group where marriage is on tenuous ground, real communion with other people is fractured, and we’re told the answer is “SEX AND CAREER!”, it’s not unusual for people to opt for animals instead of people. There’s a deeper reality of broken humanity here that he’s talking about. Priorities, like someone else said. Do we really think this is a diss against anything except selfishness?
 
Thorns said:
Animals are replaceable though.
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I’ve noticed that couples (and all people) adopt fewer pets as they get older. I guess there’s always that fear the pets may outlive them or they don’t want to have to drive to the vet or things of that nature. Once my Persians died off, I myself didn’t want to adopt another cat. However, I had this meowing stray outside and I didn’t have the heart to turn her over to an animal shelter. She lives with me now but it’s not like I went out of my way to get a pet. I just hope that people don’t take the Pope’s words the wrong way and turn all their pets in. They’re almost sure to get put down.
 
Thorns said:
The pope is implying that people without kids will be bitter and lonely in old age. That implication applies to single people and infeftile couples, obviously.
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No. He said that married couples choosing pets over children lead to misery; not the misery and loneliness of a dead pet or children who never write or visit, but the misery and loneliness of a wasted life and an unfulfilled vocation. Procreation is an essential part to the married vocation, which is part of why infertility is so heavy a cross. Celibacy clearly isn’t meant for procreation, so I find your remark about single people a little ridiculous.

Why do people so desperately want to take this in the worst possible light? He is the Pope, for crying out loud.
 
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