M
McCartney
Guest
Definitely a sacrilege. In that case lets legalise murder.
Pope Francis 'tells sinner she should be allowed Communion' [Phony news story ?]
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M
McCartney
Guest
Read the article. The woman is re-married and hence living in sin. She cannot be allowed to receive communion.
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panevino
Guest
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thomasemmanuel
Guest
I’m looking forward to hearing the Vatican’s clarification on what exactly was said - I truly hope that the various newspapers were not being misleading (as usual) 
M
McCartney
Guest
Is this a phone news or a phony news?
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
Hey McCartney, quick quiz: Who did Jesus spend most of his time attacking, the self-righteous or the sexual sinner?
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
The Bible said that the person who swears at his friend commits murder, and that the person who remarries commits adultery.
It looks to me like we Catholics take the second part of that teaching very strictly, but pretty much ignore the first part of the teaching. We receive communion ourselves, all the while staring down the speck in our brother or sister’s eyes, never noticing the mote in our own.
I suspect someone might be eating and drinking condemnation upon himself in the Eucharist, but I suspect it might not be the person we tend to think it is.
It looks to me like we Catholics take the second part of that teaching very strictly, but pretty much ignore the first part of the teaching. We receive communion ourselves, all the while staring down the speck in our brother or sister’s eyes, never noticing the mote in our own.
I suspect someone might be eating and drinking condemnation upon himself in the Eucharist, but I suspect it might not be the person we tend to think it is.
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ARSpade
Guest
I note the press release doesn’t bother to confirm church doctrine. Vague “Don’t draw conclusions” statements aren’t exactly a strong defense of the faith. It sounds like a WH press release.
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McCartney
Guest
Definitely the self righteous. So what’s your point.
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CNA_News
Guest
Vatican City, Apr 24, 2014 / 05:14 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Media frenzy over an alleged phone call Pope Francis made to a divorced and remarried woman allowing her to receive Communion has seen a rise in conflicting details - and has been lamented by the Vatican as causing “confusion.”
feeds.feedburner.com/~ff/catholicnewsagency/dailynews?d=yIl2AUoC8zA
http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/catholicnewsagency/dailynews/~4/qRIORI_zc_4
Full article…
Code:
Spokesman Father Federico Lombardi said today that the Holy See will not officially comment on the alleged phone call Pope Francis made to an Argentinean woman this week, as the pontiff's “personal pastoral” relationships “do not in any way form part of the Pope's public activities.”
“That which has been communicated in relation to this matter,” he stressed in an April 24 statement, “and the consequent media amplification, cannot be confirmed as reliable, and is a source of misunderstanding and confusion.”
The story of a woman in Argentina that allegedly received a phone call from Pope Francis on Easter Monday, giving her “permission” to receive Communion since she is married with a divorced man, has become more complex and doubtful in some of its details.
The situation involves Jaquelina Lisbona, 47, and Julio Sabetta, 50, of San Lorenzo - a small city 185 miles North West from Buenos Aires.
Sabetta was married into the Catholic church in 1985, but got legally divorced in 1992. In 1994, he was re-introduced to Jaquelina - they had been boyfriend and girlfriend in their teens - and the two started to live together in a civil union. Since then, they had two children, Candela and Josefina, aged 17 and 14, respectively.
Six years ago, during Candela's preparation for her confirmation - both daughters have been baptized, received first Holy Communion and have been confirmed - the local pastor at that time, who has been erroneously described as having left the priesthood by some news sources, told Jaquelina that she could not receive Communion because of her marital status.
Last September, encouraged by a friend, she decided to write Pope Francis about her situation and her desire to receive Communion.
The story of the Pope's “permission” to Jaquelina to receive Communion was first posted on Monday evening by Sabetta on his Facebook Page when he wrote: “Today one of the most beautiful things happened to me since the birth of my two daughters, I got a call in my home from none other than Pope Francis, it was a big emotion, we cannot figure it out yet, this call was originated by my wife who sent him a letter and he took his time to call her and talk to her and I can assure you that we he talks, he gives you total peace. Thanks God for this blessing!”
The story was originally picked up by local radio station “La Red,” and local newspaper “La Capital.” It was then mentioned by the national Argentinean News Agency TELAM and by Wednesday the news story spread globally, including the Drudge Report.
What the Pope exactly told Jaquelina is a matter of controversy. Speaking to La Red, Jaquelina said that after talking for about ten minutes with the Pope, he allegedly told her that there are some priests that are “more Papist than the Pope” and that she should “go to confession and start taking communion at a different parish.”
In a second interview, overwhelmed by the international attention and the phone calls from around the world, she confirmed that she received “permission” to receive Communion by the Pope, but she complained: “this was supposed to be discrete, now I don't think I will be able to go anywhere now.”
Since Wednesday, Jaquelina has not been available for comments.
A call from CNA at their home was responded by her daughter Candela, who confirmed that “Pope Francis called, we are overjoyed and humbled as a family.” But she said that her mother was overwhelmed and was neither taking calls nor working at the small grocery store that the family owns across the street.
Sabetta instead has been happy to respond to the press. According to his version: “Francisco told my wife that she was free from all sin, that she should go to communion, that she should go with peace of mind, since a divorced who goes (to Communion) is doing nothing wrong.”
“He only told her to go to communion to another parish to avoid frictions (with the pastor.)”
But the pastor of San Lorenzo's church, Fr. José Ceschi, said late on Wednesday that the alleged “permission” to receive communion given by the Pope is “absurd.”
Speaking to local radio station La Ocho, Fr. Ceschi said that “first of all, I am very happy to know that the Pope called someone in San Lorenzo, the Pope surprises with these calls and people is so surprised, and that makes me happy. I do believe in the call, but what is hard to believe is that he gave her permission to go to communion.”
“The Pope would never do that, is impossible. If he is coming from a previous sacrament and they are living together is absolutely impossible,” Fr. Ceschi told the radio station.
“What happens is that the Pope, like all bishops and priests, needs to be father, mother and teacher, always with an open heart, while telling things as they are.”http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/catholicnewsagency/dailynews/~4/qRIORI_zc_4
Full article…
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
If you can’t see what my point is, then, you “don’t have ears to hear”.
At any rate, God bless you!
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grandfather
Guest
Jesus condemned self righteousness, but if a self righteous person repents He forgives him. He forgives sin. He tells the woman caught in adultery to go and sin no more.
If I leave my lawful wife, the woman I made vows to love and remain faithful to until death, and go live with another woman it is adultery, a mortal sin, as defined by the Church from the beginning.
In order for me to be forgiven of my sins I must repent of them. I can not persist in them. Jesus commanded His apostles to preach the gospel of repentance for forgiveness of sin. I have to stop doing the evil to find forgiveness. If the evil is adultery I have to stop it.
If you confess you steal money from your employer every day and intend to keep doing it your priest can not absolve you. If you have a mistress and refuse to leave her you can’t expect forgiveness.
The Church has always defended marriage. If people can live with whomever they choose and change partners whenever they wish marriage falls apart, as it has in our modern society, due to defect in civil laws.
If the Church adopts those defects she implicitly says the two thousand year old moral teaching on marriage has been in error. Morals do not change. If the Church has been teaching error about morals regarding not only marriage and sexual sin then all other moral teachings are questionable.
Purity is a virtue. Faithfulness is a virtue. Keeping vows to God is a virtue. The Church must confirm her ancient teaching or she will collapse and society will collapse into moral chaos, as is already happening for lack of virtue.
The fact that God condemns one sin does not mean He condones another.
There is no difference between the self righteous and the adulterer. The person who persists in sin is self righteous, for most certainly he is not righteous before God.
If the Vatican changes Church doctrine on marriage, divorce and remarriage, there will be a schism. Many people will approve of the action. Many others will not be able to understand and accept it.
I know people who have left the Church over their parents annulments. People were married twenty years with five children. The husband said when he made his vows and said I do with his mouth he did not mean it. An annulment was granted. The marriage never existed according to the Church. The kids said that made them bastards, conceived outside marriage. Then a similar thing happened with one of the grown daughters, married in the Church with three children. She and the kids were abandoned by her lawful husband who ran off and it was annulled. She left the Church. Why bother with an institution that can tell you one day you are married and the next you were never married?
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anonymous_in_fl
Guest
I will wait until something official comes from the Vatican to believe it, not reports from main stream media.
M
McCartney
Guest
If you are trying to say that I am self righteous you have not understood what I said. I agreed that taking communion under mortal sin was a sacrilege. I also said if we are going to change the rules on sacrileges then we can also change the rules on murder. What’s so self righteous about that?
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Prodigal_Son
Guest
I agree. But it has been the teaching of the Church that we cannot presume to know when another person is in a state of mortal sin. A confessor may be able to determine this, but not you or I. So when we hear that a person is divorced and remarried, we do not know the level of their consent, we do not know whether the conditions for a mortal sin were met.
I agree, and I am grieved by this situation. I do not think no-fault divorce should be legal.
I agree with all of this.
I agree.
Is there a difference between the person who looks at a woman lustfully and the person who has committed adultery multiple times? In one sense, yes. In another sense, no.
Is there a difference between the person who remarries without annulment and the person who cheats on his or her spouse? In one sense, yes. In another sense, no.
At any rate, I don’t understand the zeal to publicly ostracize people who remarry without annulment, where there is no corresponding zeal to ostracize people who are self-righteous or lustful or wrathful. Apparently we have the ability to judge our brother or sister’s hearts?
Wait, but I thought the Pope was infallible on matters of faith and morals.
H
Hopey
Guest
“Several telephone calls have taken place in the context of Pope Francis’ personal pastoral relationships,” said Father Federico Lombardi, the director of the press office. “Since they do not in any way form part of the Pope’s public activities, no information or comments are to be expected from the Holy See Press Office.”
“That which has been communicated in relation to this matter, outside the scope of personal relationships, and the consequent media amplification, cannot be confirmed as reliable, and is a source of misunderstanding and confusion,” he added.
‘Therefore, consequences relating to the teaching of the Church are not to be inferred from these occurrences.”
From Vatican issues statement on Pope’s telephone calls
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21202
“That which has been communicated in relation to this matter, outside the scope of personal relationships, and the consequent media amplification, cannot be confirmed as reliable, and is a source of misunderstanding and confusion,” he added.
‘Therefore, consequences relating to the teaching of the Church are not to be inferred from these occurrences.”
From Vatican issues statement on Pope’s telephone calls
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21202
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_Abyssinia
Guest
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