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PaulfromIowa
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I didn’t reference this article. I said that the site is anti-Catholic, which is correct. The anti-Catholicism in this article is not overt.
Pope Francis Tells Sobbing Child his Atheist Father could be in Heaven
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angel12
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Nor covert, either.
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catholic1seeks
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Nothing the Pope said was incorrect.
He reminded us of God’s fatherly love: And that God will not dismiss one and cast the aside simply for unbelief.
Catholic teaching has never been that having the right beliefs is sufficient to go to Heaven. What is required for Heaven is not passing a theological exam, but whether or not we have Charity. The virtue of Charity, by God’s grace, is not necessarily tied to an explicit Faith in the Catholic Church. We simply cannot judge any soul. Only God knows.
He reminded us of God’s fatherly love: And that God will not dismiss one and cast the aside simply for unbelief.
Catholic teaching has never been that having the right beliefs is sufficient to go to Heaven. What is required for Heaven is not passing a theological exam, but whether or not we have Charity. The virtue of Charity, by God’s grace, is not necessarily tied to an explicit Faith in the Catholic Church. We simply cannot judge any soul. Only God knows.
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CilladeRoma
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I think there are going to be a lot of very surprised people in both heaven and hell.
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EricF
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Without a doubt!
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russ1
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I believe that this is the best post I have ever seen on CA forums.
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russ1
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The subtext of the article and this discussion is “Is atheism a deal breaker for eternal life?”
And despite the fact that I may be called a heretic, I don’t believe that God is so insecure that whether you have faith that He exists, or whether you consider the absolute lack of measurable evidence to mean that He doesn’t is something he worries about. I think he is far more interested in the way you live your life on earth, and how you treat others.
I wouldn’t put God in a box like that.
And despite the fact that I may be called a heretic, I don’t believe that God is so insecure that whether you have faith that He exists, or whether you consider the absolute lack of measurable evidence to mean that He doesn’t is something he worries about. I think he is far more interested in the way you live your life on earth, and how you treat others.
I wouldn’t put God in a box like that.
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Trickypixie
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Our beloved Pope has shown repeatedly that he has the compassion that Christ deems necessary for the job. He was not placating the child. He was offering the hope of Christ. To anyone who thinks that they are above Francis and know what he should have said, I ask have you met the man?
Pope Francis has proven that if he is to err, it will be on the side of love. I am certain he is praying for that atheist father and perhaps assuring the father’s salvation. I believe my mother may have received the same Grace from my prayers. How I wish the pope was praying for her and in fact he may be, as I pray for the Lost. I trust that God answers my prayers for the Lost.
Perhaps Pope Francis prays
for the Lost. Since he is God’s chosen, then I expect that his prayers will align with God’s will and if it is just, that atheist will be home with us and his children.
Pope Francis has proven that if he is to err, it will be on the side of love. I am certain he is praying for that atheist father and perhaps assuring the father’s salvation. I believe my mother may have received the same Grace from my prayers. How I wish the pope was praying for her and in fact he may be, as I pray for the Lost. I trust that God answers my prayers for the Lost.
Perhaps Pope Francis prays
for the Lost. Since he is God’s chosen, then I expect that his prayers will align with God’s will and if it is just, that atheist will be home with us and his children.
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Pup7
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If anyone prays for the lost on a regular - maybe daily - basis, I have no doubt that person is Pope Francis.
Or any pope, for that matter. I can’t imagine JPII not doing it nor even Pope Benedict not doing it.
I think all popes pray for the lost to find the truth. I would say it’s very much in their job description.
All of our job descriptions, I think, really, and not just as Catholics but as Christians.
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rbhjohnson
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There is no formula to guarantee heaven or hell.
Im not God.
I have never been to heaven.
This list also applies to the pope and the rest of humanity. So the man COULD be in heaven. Saying he isnt in heaven (when there is no proof is lying) and saying the man IS in heaven (without proof) is lying. The pope was perfect in what he said.
Im not God.
I have never been to heaven.
This list also applies to the pope and the rest of humanity. So the man COULD be in heaven. Saying he isnt in heaven (when there is no proof is lying) and saying the man IS in heaven (without proof) is lying. The pope was perfect in what he said.
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hmikell7
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It was not my intention to bash the Pope. I love Francis, and think he is an amazing Pope, for the most part. I was merely wondering what the doctrinal basis was for what he said.
After rereading the article again, and reading the comments here, I see that the Pope really was just trying to comfort a small child who had lost his father. As someone who himself doesn’t much want or care too much for children, I’m a realist, so when I first read this story my mind went straight to whether this was doctrinally correct or not, though I now see that that wasn’t really the point. I’ve never really seen the point in sheltering them. I realize though that this isn’t how most people feel, and I see that this is all that the Pope was trying to do.
So looking back, I see that my misunderstanding of the Pope’s word’s comes as a result of my own short-sightedness and my own cold heart.
There’s also the fact that an atheist had all four of his children baptized, which is more than a little unusual. Seems to suggest that maybe the child didn’t fully understand his father’s faith or that something else is amiss, we just don’t know. So I understand Francis’ remarks better in light of all of that.
This is why I posted it here. I knew people with a better understanding of the faith and of the Holy Father could do a better job of dissecting this than I could on my own
After rereading the article again, and reading the comments here, I see that the Pope really was just trying to comfort a small child who had lost his father. As someone who himself doesn’t much want or care too much for children, I’m a realist, so when I first read this story my mind went straight to whether this was doctrinally correct or not, though I now see that that wasn’t really the point. I’ve never really seen the point in sheltering them. I realize though that this isn’t how most people feel, and I see that this is all that the Pope was trying to do.
So looking back, I see that my misunderstanding of the Pope’s word’s comes as a result of my own short-sightedness and my own cold heart.
There’s also the fact that an atheist had all four of his children baptized, which is more than a little unusual. Seems to suggest that maybe the child didn’t fully understand his father’s faith or that something else is amiss, we just don’t know. So I understand Francis’ remarks better in light of all of that.
This is why I posted it here. I knew people with a better understanding of the faith and of the Holy Father could do a better job of dissecting this than I could on my own
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Trickypixie
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I am touched by your humility. I truly hope my response did not sound too harsh. I must confess to certain protectiveness of our beloved Pope. I felt the same way about Saint John Paul the Great. They certainly don’t need me to defend them! Your humility has brought mine to the surface. The post was a serious question that needed to be asked. Thank you for adding to my faith and to my humility. I will be praying for you in joy!
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hmikell7
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Very well said, despite the words being directed in my own direction. I’m relatively new to the Catholic faith (that’s not intended as an excuse because it isn’t an excuse), and I still have a lot to learn. My issue was based largely off of how I know evangelicals would have reacted to such a statement, which is how I was raised. It’s also why I left evangelical Protestantism, and came home to the Church. The response also came partially out of my own cold-heartedness towards children, which is also something I desperately need to work on.
Thank you for your response, I still have much to learn, and your words were certainly a learning moment.
Thank you for your response, I still have much to learn, and your words were certainly a learning moment.
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hmikell7
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Your response was spot on. Believe me though, Francis will forever be one of my all time favorite popes. He’s the Pope who brought me home to the Church, so he’ll always hold a very special place for me.
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Trickypixie
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Whatever I have said, I pray it will never get in the way of you and God. I am nothing beloved. Just another opinion and perhaps I need to remember that. God bless!
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Peebo
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Didn’t St. Faustina say that Jesus seeks out every soul at the moment of their death and offers them the chance of salvation…or words to that effect
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Miguel25
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And he maybe right who knows, is not the norm but who knows. The bad issue is according to a catholic report in spanish he said talk to your father and pray to him.
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Miguel25
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st faustina is not magisterium . We should stop quoting saints like they are infalible
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ratio1
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He didn’t say the child’s father is in heaven for sure. Your title reflects more than the use of the word “is”.
Congrats to Pope Francis. He handled a difficult question almost like Jesus in the Gospel stories.
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hmikell7
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That’s my bad for incorrect word usage. I’ve amended the error, thank you for pointing it out. I almost wish there was a way to delete the post, because I no longer have any issues with the Pope’s words.
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