Pope Francis: The divorced who have entered a new union should be made to feel part of the Church. They are not excommunicated

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I heard something by a priest on relevant radio that made sense. Pope Francis is much more hard on practicing good Catholics than those outside the Church or those on the fringe.
 
They are part of the church. So what is his point? No One and I mean No one believes they are excommunicated.
I think it was at least informally implied, if not actually taught, in some places and at some times. I’ve had a number of discussions with “seniors” who state that they were told this.
 
In most places in the Christian world, there’s been no stigma attached to being divorced for more than half a century now.
 
I think it was at least informally implied, if not actually taught, in some places and at some times. I’ve had a number of discussions with “seniors” who state that they were told this.
True. We have to remember that not that long ago divorce was a taboo, not just among Catholics but among many Christians as well.

I know of at least one person was divorced and not remarried but stayed away from the sacraments nevertheless. It would seem that even forgiveness for the divorce itself was not rapidly forthcoming. The person I am speaking of would probably be in her 70s now, it was the mother of an oblate novice.
 
Does anyone know what’s meant by this?

Getting divorced does not excommunicate anyone, and never did.
Living with a person to whom one is not validly married does not excommunicate anyone, formally, though that person is not supposed to go to communion.

I understand not being unkind to such people. I understand not admonishing them, though I thought that was a spiritual work of mercy under some understandings of them.

I can even understand instructing children not to say anything when someone who is living in an illicit relationship attends mass with the paramour and goes to communion.

But is there not some line somewhere at which “welcoming” passes over the line into “enabling scandal”? Can we still tell our children that such relationships are sinful? Do we tell them that “…well, in front of this couple and others, I am acting a part. But I don’t actually approve.”

And if we are to welcome them into the Church and pretend we approve or at least don’t care, are we to welcome the homosexual “marrieds” in the same way, then tell our children in private that it’s sinful no matter how we acted about it and we’re only pretending to think it’s okay?

I, for one, would like to see clarification of some of these statements attributed to the Pope, and I’m sure I’m not the only one who would.

If this is an exhortation to civility and good manners, and nothing more, then I get it. If we’re to instruct children or others, by word or deed, that illicit relationships equate to licit ones, then I truly don’t.

Maybe someone here can explain.
 
If this is an exhortation to civility and good manners, and nothing more, then I get it. If we’re to instruct children or others, by word or deed, that illicit relationships equate to licit ones, then I truly don’t.
The part of the exhortation in question is aimed at pastors to help them with the pastoral care of persons in these situations. It is not directed at the laity.

There is certainly no intent to equate licit and illicit relationships. I don’t see how anybody can read the document and come to that conclusion 🤷
 
I think it was at least informally implied, if not actually taught, in some places and at some times. I’ve had a number of discussions with “seniors” who state that they were told this.
Are these seniors over the age of 100? Divorce is so common in the church since the 70’s. I wouldnt be suprised if 40% of all couples in the church have been remarried.
 
True. We have to remember that not that long ago divorce was a taboo, not just among Catholics but among many Christians as well.

I know of at least one person was divorced and not remarried but stayed away from the sacraments nevertheless. It would seem that even forgiveness for the divorce itself was not rapidly forthcoming. The person I am speaking of would probably be in her 70s now, it was the mother of an oblate novice.
One whole person. Out of how many?
 
One whole person. Out of how many?
It was at a time in Quebec when Catholic divorce was extremely rare, divorce and remarriage rarer still, and just the act of divorce highly stigmatized (1950s).
 
Does anyone know what’s meant by this?..
I see it more in terms of refraining from ‘subjective’ judgement of an individual’s state of mind in relation to God on the basis of his/her objectively sinful situation. This is to be left in the privacy of the confessional.

Way back in the mid-19th century, Pio Nono (Blessed Pius IX of 'Syllabus of Errors’ fame) was questioned about people who were outside the church or members of schismatic Christian sects. Objectively, such individuals were deemed to be in a gravely sinful situation owing to the fact that “outside the Church” there is no salvation, as the dogma goes. It had long been recognised that simply lacking baptism or the fullness of the sacraments did not equal immediate damnation but for a long time people had popularly understood this ‘exception’, so to speak, in terms of those having an ‘explicit desire’ for baptism or reception into the true Church.

Pio Nono - that champion of inflexible orthodoxy - surprised many by his seemingly ‘soft’ stance on this issue. He utilized the same objectivity/subjectivity distinction that our present Holy Father has applied to “irregular” relationships:
**Pope Pius IX 1846-1878
Singulari Quadam, 1854:**
Code:
174. "It must, of course, be held as a matter of faith that outside the apostolic Roman Church no one can be saved, that the Church is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever does not enter it will perish in the flood. On the other hand, it must likewise be held as certain that those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance, are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord. **Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, lands, native talents, and so many other factors?** **Only when we have been released from the bonds of this body and see God just as He is (see John 3:2) shall we really understand how close and beautiful a bond joins Divine mercy with Divine justice**."
Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, 1863:
Code:
"...We all know that those who are afflicted with invincible ignorance with regard to our holy religion, if they carefully keep the precepts of the natural law that have been written by God in the hearts of men, if they are prepared to obey God, and if they lead a virtuous and dutiful life, can attain eternal life by the power of divine light and grace."
Some were unhappy with Pius IX’s definition of ‘invincible ignorance’ and ‘baptism by implicit desire’ given above. The controversial part was the following:

Now, then, who could presume in himself an ability to set the boundaries of such ignorance, taking into consideration the natural differences of peoples, lands, native talents, and so many other factors?

In essence, this was as open-ended as possible: the Pope explicitly said that Catholics should not ‘presume’ to set the ‘boundaries’ of the inculpable ‘ignorance’ that kept many millions of Protestants, Muslims, Jews in an *‘objectively sinful’ * state of ‘un-belief’ or ‘lack of full belief’ without having any personal culpability for this due to “so many factors” that the Pope didn’t even care to specify which meant that they could “attain eternal life by the power of divine light and grace”. Only God could ascertain this. For individual Catholics to do so was 'presumptuous’ according to the Pope.

My point being: should anyone be surprised that this theological distinction between ‘objective sinfulness’ vs ‘subjective culpability mitigated by innumerable factors’, is not merely confined to disbelief/heresy but can validly be applied to a whole range of other objectively sinful situations, including irregular ‘sexual’ ones? The criteria Pope Francis has laid out for pastors in relation to irregular unions is much less “expansive” than the seemingly ‘carte-blanche’ criteria provided by Pius IX in relation to those in objective states of unbelief and heresy.

Its nothing new nor is it a violation of our tradituon. Sometimes, I feel that people don’t really get the nuances of Catholic theology. Evangelical Protestantism is a good deal more simplistic and black/white in orientation, perhaps folk are too ‘Protestanized’.
 
They are not excommunicated. However, anyone who is divorced and re-“married” can not receive Communion because they are living in a state of mortal sin and can not be absolved for that because they do not have intention of amendment. And unless Francis is seeking to repudiate two thousand years of doctrine, that is that. No, someone who is living in a state of mortal sin should not be “made to feel welcome” unless and until they are willing to do something about it.
 
It was at a time in Quebec when Catholic divorce was extremely rare, divorce and remarriage rarer still, and just the act of divorce highly stigmatized (1950s).
So the pope is referring a situation that has existed in 50 years? The facts are, divorced catholic are more than welcome in the church.
 
The part of the exhortation in question is aimed at pastors to help them with the pastoral care of persons in these situations. It is not directed at the laity.

There is certainly no intent to equate licit and illicit relationships. I don’t see how anybody can read the document and come to that conclusion 🤷
Pastoral Care? Priests are even more accepting of divorced than the laity,
 
“The unity of the Church is not served by inconsistencies in official documents, even when they are on mere matters of non-authoritative opinion. What we have now is an impassioned debate over the meaning of footnote 351. If this ecclesiastical digression was avoided, the Church and the world could devote its energies to the rich meaning of Christian marriage by appropriating this love letter of Francis, which is what Amoris Laetitia essentially is.”

from: Separating Opinon from Doctrine in Amoris Laetitia
 
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