Pope Francis to bishops: Stop wishing for the good old days

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PHILADELPHIA — Likening the world today to a giant supermarket with a plethora of choices but an impersonal feel, Pope Francis urged his bishops to embrace change and work within it to connect with young people.

He also urged the bishops to not merely harp on doctrine, but also to preach positively about the benefits of marriage and family life.

“A Christianity which ‘does’ little in practice, while incessantly ‘explaining’ its teachings, is dangerously unbalanced. I would even say that it is stuck in a vicious circle,” he said. “A pastor must show that the ‘Gospel of the family’ is truly ‘good news’ in a world where self-concern seems to reign supreme!”

Francis did not mention same-sex marriage, but US bishops have cited that, as well as high divorce rates, contraception, and abortion as serious threats to the family.

But the majority of his speech was focused on encouraging his bishops to accept the realities of life today.

“Christians are not immune to the changes of their times,” Francis said. “This concrete world, with all its many problems and possibilities, is where we must live, believe, and proclaim.”



The morning after delivering an enthusiastic, off-script sermon about the beauty of family life at the Festival of Families Saturday nignt, Francis used an extended metaphor almost everyone can relate to – grocery shopping – to explain the challenges of ministering to families today.

In the old days, the pope said, society was like a neighborhood store.

“The products may not have been cleverly displayed, or offered much choice, but there was a personal bond between the shopkeeper and his customers,” Francis told the bishops. Then there’s the giant supermarket, he said, with a multitude of choices but leading to a breakdown of trust and neighborly bonds.

“Today’s culture seems to encourage people not to bond with anything or anyone, not to trust,” Francis said. “Consuming relationships, consuming friendships, consuming religions, consuming, consuming. Whatever the cost or consequences. A consumption that does not favor bonding, a consumption which has little to do with human relationships.”

The pope said pastors must resist the temptation to say things were better in the old days and be willing to engage people where they are, not blame them for the way things are today.

“Are today’s young people hopelessly timid, weak, inconsistent? We must not fall into this trap,” Francis said.

Mindful that the median age of marriage continues to rise and the number of children continues to drop in the United States and Europe, Francis reiterated his call for young people to have the courage to make long-term commitments, saying true happiness can only be found that way.

“Many put off marriage while waiting for ideal conditions, when everything can be perfect. Meanwhile, life goes on, without really being lived to the full,” he said. “For knowledge of life’s true pleasures only comes as the fruit of a long-term, generous investment of our intelligence, enthusiasm, and passion.”

read the rest:

cruxnow.com/life/2015/09/27/pope-francis-to-bishops-stop-wishing-for-the-good-old-days/
 
Actually it seems the Holy Father was saying things were better in the old days…
**In the old days, the pope said, society was like a neighborhood store.
“The products may not have been cleverly displayed, or offered much choice, but there was a personal bond between the shopkeeper and his customers,” **Francis told the bishops. Then there’s the giant supermarket, he said, with a multitude of choices but leading to a breakdown of trust and neighborly bonds.
“Today’s culture seems to encourage people not to bond with anything or anyone, not to trust,” Francis said. “Consuming relationships, consuming friendships, consuming religions, consuming, consuming. Whatever the cost or consequences. A consumption that does not favor bonding, a consumption which has little to do with human relationships.”
Unfortunately things are not that way now but what the Holy Father seems to be saying is to not beat people over the head with it but talk to them in a way that the old values and way of doing things will be shown to be true now just as they were then. Perhaps our priests are learning that as we see the TLM become more popular among the young people.

Interesting that no where in the article were the words used in the headline…lol. Another example of a liberal news publication making the Pope into their image.
 
Interesting that no where in the article were the words used in the headline…lol. Another example of a liberal news publication making the Pope into their image.
That aspect was probably more clear from the original text of the Popes speech where he said…

Should we blame our young people for having grown up in this kind of society? Should we condemn them for living in this kind of a world? Should they hear their pastors saying that “it was all better back then”, “the world is falling apart and if things go on this way, who knows where we will end up?” No, I do not think that this is the way. As shepherds following in the footsteps of the Good Shepherd, we are asked to seek out, to accompany, to lift up, to bind up the wounds of our time. To look at things realistically, with the eyes of one who feels called to action, to pastoral conversion. The world today demands this conversion on our part. “It is vitally important for the Church today to go forth and preach the Gospel to all: to all places, on all occasions, without hesitation, reluctance or fear. The joy of the Gospel is for all people: no one can be excluded” (Evangelii Gaudium, 23)

cruxnow.com/papal-visit/2015/09/27/pope-francis-remarks-to-bishops-taking-part-in-the-world-meeting-of-families/
 
No lack of charity intended, just a prediction: The “Trads” are probably going to be either irritated with the Pope, or interpret what he says to fit their needs…just like the press, but from a different paradigm.

And, I could be quite wrong…actually I hope I am.

At any rate, Pope Francis is such a reformer (a real Gospel conservative), I’m sure his entire tenure will be at least interesting.

The real test will be if and when he announces a change that is a change to tradition, but not Sacred Tradition, and certainly not doctrine or dogma, and we see how it goes over…my guess is it will be about priests being allowed to marry.
 
No lack of charity intended, just a prediction: The “Trads” are probably going to be either irritated with the Pope, or interpret what he says to fit their needs…just like the press, but from a different paradigm.

And, I could be quite wrong…actually I hope I am.

At any rate, Pope Francis is such a reformer (a real Gospel conservative), I’m sure his entire tenure will be at least interesting.

The real test will be if and when he announces a change that is a change to tradition, but not Sacred Tradition, and certainly not doctrine or dogma, and we see how it goes over…my guess is it will be about priests being allowed to marry.
The only real issue I have with that is it’s more feed for the excuse-makers. People will just take Pope Francis out of context again, and progressives will think this is the first sign the Church is going to change because they think their political philosophy is inevitable. :rolleyes:

The Truth does not need excuses.
 
Actually it seems the Holy Father was saying things were better in the old days…

Unfortunately things are not that way now but what the Holy Father seems to be saying is to not beat people over the head with it but talk to them in a way that the old values and way of doing things will be shown to be true now just as they were then. Perhaps our priests are learning that as we see the TLM become more popular among the young people.

Interesting that no where in the article were the words used in the headline…lol. Another example of a liberal news publication making the Pope into their image.
I think Pope Francis is gearing towards that it’s more important to get people to adopt our Catholic ideas than to win arguments. This is actually quite a significant concept.

I can see some wisdom in that, because the Truth ultimately speaks for itself. In the Gospel, Jesus laid out His offer to many. Some accepted, some didn’t.
 
I think Pope Francis is gearing towards that it’s more important to get people to adopt our Catholic ideas than to win arguments. This is actually quite a significant concept.

I can see some wisdom in that, because the Truth ultimately speaks for itself. In the Gospel, Jesus laid out His offer to many. Some accepted, some didn’t.
Even if you want people to adopt our Catholic ideas, you still have to engage in a conversation. Most modern Catholics are trying to have “evangelization,” but without the actual evangelizing.

Eventually, disagreements ensue. When presenting a Catholic idea- say the Immaculate Conception- what happens when a listener responds, “That’s unbiblical. That’s false.” Is that when you stop talking with that person? Because God forbid, now you are left to explain why the idea is true, and their position is wrong. No matter HOW POLITE you broach the subject.
 
Even if you want people to adopt our Catholic ideas, you still have to engage in a conversation. Most modern Catholics are trying to have “evangelization,” but without the actual evangelizing.

Eventually, disagreements ensue. When presenting a Catholic idea- say the Immaculate Conception- what happens when a listener responds, “That’s unbiblical. That’s false.” Is that when you stop talking with that person? Because God forbid, now you are left to explain why the idea is true, and their position is wrong. No matter HOW POLITE you broach the subject.
That’s so true. The reason that dogmas and doctrines are so important to a Catholic is because they are the beliefs that transform us within to radiate the truth of Christ. The desire to understand rightly comes from the desire to be more like Christ and initially from desiring to know what a Christlike person knows.

It’s really clear from the bible that people didn’t flock to Jesus because of the doctrines He was sprouting, but because he was so attractive in His being. ‘How can I be like Him?’ people would have been asking in their hearts and that made them desire to hear His words.

There’s an old saying that faith is caught, not taught. I wonder if a lot of people have come into the Church from an ideological perspective and think that what they have to do to convert others is sell an ideology to them. Pope Francis is one of those people who exude the holiness of Christ through his presence rather than through his words and that may be what draws people into the Church thereby igniting the desire to know what we teach so they can experience this life of meaning.
 
That aspect was probably more clear from the original text of the Popes speech where he said…

Should we blame our young people for having grown up in this kind of society? Should we condemn them for living in this kind of a world? Should they hear their pastors saying that “it was all better back then”, “the world is falling apart and if things go on this way, who knows where we will end up?” No, I do not think that this is the way. As shepherds following in the footsteps of the Good Shepherd, we are asked to seek out, to accompany, to lift up, to bind up the wounds of our time. To look at things realistically, with the eyes of one who feels called to action, to pastoral conversion. The world today demands this conversion on our part. “It is vitally important for the Church today to go forth and preach the Gospel to all: to all places, on all occasions, without hesitation, reluctance or fear. The joy of the Gospel is for all people: no one can be excluded” (Evangelii Gaudium, 23)

cruxnow.com/papal-visit/2015/09/27/pope-francis-remarks-to-bishops-taking-part-in-the-world-meeting-of-families/
That doesn’t imply what the title of the article says. It just says that the bishops can’t simply preach the superiority of the ‘old days’. They have to meet people where they are and show them the value of the family.
 
I think Pope Francis is gearing towards that it’s more important to get people to adopt our Catholic ideas than to win arguments. This is actually quite a significant concept.

I can see some wisdom in that, because the Truth ultimately speaks for itself. In the Gospel, Jesus laid out His offer to many. Some accepted, some didn’t.
You can already see the disappointment among liberals because the Holy Father spoke of the protection of the unborn and his warnings on the destruction of families. They will attempt to hijack based on their political ideology but as you say we have the Truth of Jesus Christ and His Church, the Catholic Church. No need to argue… just continue to proclaim the Truth as Jesus commands us.
 
When I heard the Pope’s comments I didn’t hear anything controversial at all, I heard an encouraging but sobering message.

It’s true, we can’t turn the clocks back to the good old days. We’ve never been able to do this. I’m sure there were many Catholics at the time of the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution that longed for the days when the devoutness of the belief in the country was so high that the thought of France being forcibly De-Christianized from within would seem like a nightmarish fantasy. But we can’t look back and long for days gone by, we have to move forward and be focused on the present. We have to give our attention to today’s wounds. As I believe Pope Francis said today, we need to bind up the wounds of OUR time. It doesn’t mean giving up these culture war battles, far from it, it means we need to adapt to fight these battles more effectively.
 
“A Christianity which ‘does’ little in practice, while incessantly ‘explaining’ its teachings, is dangerously unbalanced. I would even say that it is stuck in a vicious circle,”

I think this explains much of what Pope Francis is doing. Is he correct? Well for those that say the Church is in crisis, consider that if what has been done is failing, we might need a new approach. Instead of raging against the darkness, let us be the light that dispels the darkness and bring people do desire this personal relationship with Jesus.

He profess we believe in the Holy Spirit. Should we not trust that God can transform people?
 
“A Christianity which ‘does’ little in practice, while incessantly ‘explaining’ its teachings, is dangerously unbalanced. I would even say that it is stuck in a vicious circle,”

I think this explains much of what Pope Francis is doing. Is he correct? Well for those that say the Church is in crisis, consider that if what has been done is failing, we might need a new approach. Instead of raging against the darkness, let us be the light that dispels the darkness and bring people do desire this personal relationship with Jesus.

He profess we believe in the Holy Spirit. Should we not trust that God can transform people?
What has been failing is the soft, watered down, compromising, lukewarm presentation of Catholic faith or Church doctrines which became fashionable in the 1960’s, and which was conditioned by modern trends of thought that undermine faith and morality, such as existentialism and personalism and experietialism and psychology. This approach obscured and falsified truth. A new approach should resemble the bold preaching and teaching of the apostles and the Church Fathers and the evangelical saints of later times, and it should be supplemented with knowledge drawn from the scholastic theologians. It isn’t enough to talk about our personal experience of Jesus invite people to a personal relationship with him. That isn’t the faith of the Catholic Church. People need to be drawn into the Church, not into their own subjectivity.
 
A new approach should resemble the bold preaching and teaching of the apostles and the Church Fathers and the evangelical saints of later times,…
Then I am glad we have a Pope that is delivering this. We need to be shook out of our complacency sometimes, especially in this comfortable country.

Or are you talking more about a type of Jonah, who sat back to watch Nineveh burn and got made at God for not smiting enough sinners (forgetting he was a pretty bad sinner himself)?
 
I have believed for a very long time that the church should get out of the marriage business. Holy Matrimony is a sacrament and should be separate from civil marriage. The two are not the same thing anymore and haven’t been for many years. In order to preserve the sacrament they should be separated.
 
I have believed for a very long time that the church should get out of the marriage business. Holy Matrimony is a sacrament and should be separate from civil marriage. The two are not the same thing anymore and haven’t been for many years. In order to preserve the sacrament they should be separated.
Very unjust reasoning I believe. 😦

It takes the form of ‘neutrality’ when in reality it is anything but neutral. After all, if people simply stop fighting for marriage, then it’s open season for those who seek to distort, change and destroy it.

I believe Pope Francis advocated no such thing, actually the opposite, by emphasizing marriage and it’s importance in society, and ironically you want to stop fighting for it. I don’t understand.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Then I am glad we have a Pope that is delivering this. We need to be shook out of our complacency sometimes, especially in this comfortable country.

Or are you talking more about a type of Jonah, who sat back to watch Nineveh burn and got made at God for not smiting enough sinners (forgetting he was a pretty bad sinner himself)?
Pope Francis sometimes speaks boldly and directly and with acute insight, but he does not really evangelize like the apostles and Church Fathers and the evangelical saints. He does not show the same urgency in bringing people to salvation and into the Church.

As for Jonah, God spoke to him directly and chose him to bring the people of Ninevah to repentance. He was a prophet of God, and he is in heaven. So there is no point in holding his hatred of the people of Ninevah against him. He learned his lesson. And there is nothing in the story of Jonah that suggests he was a great sinner.
 
i agree with the Pope, doctrines like the filioque or imaculate conception, as important as they may be, aren’t likely to bring people into the church.

i think too much focus on catechesis might be misguided.
 
i agree with the Pope, doctrines like the filioque or imaculate conception, as important as they may be, aren’t likely to bring people into the church.

i think too much focus on catechesis might be misguided.
Its true that those doctrines aren’t likely to bring people into the Church, but no one says they will. Catechesis includes the most important themes, such as the existence of God, his creation of all things, his love of God for all people,the commandments to love God and neighbor, the divinity and humanity of Jesus and his sacrifice for our salvation, the need for faith and good works for salvation.
 
And there is nothing in the story of Jonah that suggests he was a great sinner.
Well, there is that running away and abandoning God part. God was merciful to him.

And no, as Pope, Francis does not evangelize in the manner of the apostles in the First Century. Before he was Pope, he did give his whole life in service to God, so I do not think I sit in a place to judge him on this score. His work in Argentina was spectacular, in my opinion.
 
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