Pope Francis urges Catholics to shake up dioceses

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RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) — Pope Francis has shown the world his rebellious side, urging young Catholics to shake up the church and make a “mess” in their dioceses by going out into the streets to spread the faith. It’s a message he put into practice by visiting one of Rio’s most violent slums and opening the church’s World Youth Day on a rain-soaked Copacabana Beach.

news.yahoo.com/pope-francis-urges-catholics-shake-dioceses-060459309.html
 
I am amazed by the headline they chose. So much to this story and yet they take one sentence out of context and use it as the headline. Shameful.
 
It is very admirable that the Pope went to la favella. Favellas are ravaged not just by poverty but by drugs and violent drug dealing gangs.
 
I am amazed by the headline they chose. So much to this story and yet they take one sentence out of context and use it as the headline. Shameful.
I love the headline, we should shake up dioceses !!
 
We need to get out there! Spread the word!

Regarding the headline, it’s true. We can’t afford to be stranger Catholics who don’t know the person next to us in Church and just get in our cars and drive home after Mass. Yes, some of us have been given vocations by God that prevent us from doing certain things, but all of us are called to spread the Word to others.

Help the poor.

Hand out pamphlets.

Pray in front of an abortion clinic. Be a visible witness for the truth. No - we are not to force people to do anything, but I know, firsthand, that just being there, praying, is a visible sign to all, not of us, but of witnesses to the truth.

Peace,
Ed
 
Indeed we all have a duty to apread the Word by our acts of charity and sincere concern for our neighbors. By these do we stand as witnesses to the truth of the Gospel.

Kudos to Pope Francis!
 
The headline, to me, makes it look like the Pope is telling Catholics to be disobedient, when in fact the full message is a great one. I certainly agree with his message, but I don’t think the headline does it justice.
 
I believe the usage if the words “shake up dioceses” means to “awaken dioceses to action.”
 
Once again certain Catholics are taking this as an excuse, rather a license, nay, a GOSPEL COMMAND! from the Pope to do very weird/offensive/disobedient things.

I understand that the Pope can pretty much say and do whatever he wants, and I understand that the Pope does not mean what others think or want him to mean. However, I think it is also an imperative for people with authority to be cognizant of how their statements will be interpreted. More clearly, major damage can be done even if only a minority of people will interpret the Pope in weird/offensive/disobedient ways. It will take 100 people doing things right in response to this to rectify the bad that one person will do in response to his misinterpretation–which is not unreasonable as I have alluded to–of the Pope’s statements.

Regardless of what the Pope really meant, which isn’t hard to imagine, “Shake things up,” if that phrase is translated correctly and has a similar connotation in the Portuguese original, has an extremely anti-authoritarian, Enlightenment flavor to it.
 
The headline, to me, makes it look like the Pope is telling Catholics to be disobedient, when in fact the full message is a great one. I certainly agree with his message, but I don’t think the headline does it justice.
This is how I felt when I first read the headline. It made it sound as if the Pope was asking us to go against the traditions of the Church, to put a new spin in Catholicism. Reading the article, you realize that is not the case, but most people don’t read entire articles. They might read the first and last paragraphs of an article, but many will only get when is read in the headline (which is why a headline is so important).
 
If the pope worried that every time he spoke he may be proof-texted by the popular media and dissident Catholics, he’d never say anything. It’s up to us to clarify misconceptions planted by the father of lies.

It reminds me of the condom debacle five years ago.
 
If the pope worried that every time he spoke he may be proof-texted by the popular media and dissident Catholics, he’d never say anything. It’s up to us to clarify misconceptions planted by the father of lies.

It reminds me of the condom debacle five years ago.
I think the difference is that this time this feeds in to the Pope’s popular image as “people luvin rule-hater.”
 
This is disconcerting and sad to me. What it tells me is that lay Catholics and religious are much further from each other than I ever thought.

This expression, “shake up the dioceses” is a direct quote from a letter that St. Ignatius of Loyola sent to his Jesuits which said that problem of Protestantism was not a problem at all, because the Church needed to be shaken from her sleep. He encouraged his sons to challenge the clergy to go out beyond their status quo. In order to do so, St. Ignatius suspended all community activities, including praying together and living in community houses, when it was necessary for the sake of the ministry. It shocked the establishment of his time, because religious lived in community, traveled in pairs or more, prayed together and did not stray too far from the community without permission.

St. Ignatius idea was that the only way to rescue the Church from the Protestant Reformation was to rattle the establishment to return to fidelity and to apostolic activity.

As I was listening to the Franciscans on EWTN, it was very clear to the friars and to other members of religious orders what the Holy Father meant and that his idea came from the early letters of St. Ignatius.

But I did not realize how many people are not familiar with the founders of the great orders. This is not the first time that something has been said or done that comes from a particular religious tradition and it leaves everyone (except religious men) grappling for comprehension.

I guess that our mistake has been to assume that people understand us and those around us know about our founders, our history and our vision of the Church.

The solution is to work harder in the area of catechesis, to get back to a time when people knew what a Jesuit was thinking, why a Franciscan looked like a slob, or what a Dominican was preaching.
 
The headline is very correct (and it’s not Yahoo, it’s an AP story hosted by Yahoo and other sites).
Pope Francis insisted to use “lío” (uproar, tumult) seven times in his speech (what the story translates as mess/trouble/disorder) and urged young people to be as “tumultuous” in their parishes as they have been in Rio, lest the Church turns into an NGO. He treated the young people as his potential allies in this fight against passivity, isolation, comfort and clericalism. That’s why he explicitly apologized to priests and bishops if this could turn even against them.

And that’s why he insisted that the faith should be lived intensely, adding to the connotation of storm, stir, tumult, scandal: “Faith in Jesus Christ isn’t a joke, is something very serious. It’s a scandal that God has become one of us, it’s a scandal, and Jesus’ death on the cross is a scandal, the scandal of the cross. The cross continues to be a scandal, because it’s the only sure way, that of the cross, that of Jesus, His incarnation.”
All his speech strongly reminded me of the narrative of the cleansing of the Temple.

The original speech was in Spanish:
aciprensa.com/noticias/texto-completo-discurso-del-papa-francisco-en-encuentro-con-jovenes-argentinos-88631/
 
The headline is very correct (and it’s not Yahoo, it’s an AP story hosted by Yahoo and other sites).
Pope Francis insisted to use “lío” (uproar, tumult) seven times in his speech (what the story translates as mess/trouble/disorder) and urged young people to be as “tumultuous” in their parishes as they have been in Rio, lest the Church turns into an NGO. He treated the young people as his potential allies in this fight against passivity, isolation, comfort and clericalism. That’s why he explicitly apologized to priests and bishops if this could turn even against them.

And that’s why he insisted that the faith should be lived intensely, adding to the connotation of storm, stir, tumult, scandal: “Faith in Jesus Christ isn’t a joke, is something very serious. It’s a scandal that God has become one of us, it’s a scandal, and Jesus’ death on the cross is a scandal, the scandal of the cross. The cross continues to be a scandal, because it’s the only sure way, that of the cross, that of Jesus, His incarnation.”
All his speech strongly reminded me of the narrative of the cleansing of the Temple.

The original speech was in Spanish:
aciprensa.com/noticias/texto-completo-discurso-del-papa-francisco-en-encuentro-con-jovenes-argentinos-88631/
 
This is disconcerting and sad to me. What it tells me is that lay Catholics and religious are much further from each other than I ever thought.

This expression, “shake up the dioceses” is a direct quote from a letter that St. Ignatius of Loyola sent to his Jesuits which said that problem of Protestantism was not a problem at all, because the Church needed to be shaken from her sleep. He encouraged his sons to challenge the clergy to go out beyond their status quo. In order to do so, St. Ignatius suspended all community activities, including praying together and living in community houses, when it was necessary for the sake of the ministry. It shocked the establishment of his time, because religious lived in community, traveled in pairs or more, prayed together and did not stray too far from the community without permission.

St. Ignatius idea was that the only way to rescue the Church from the Protestant Reformation was to rattle the establishment to return to fidelity and to apostolic activity.

As I was listening to the Franciscans on EWTN, it was very clear to the friars and to other members of religious orders what the Holy Father meant and that his idea came from the early letters of St. Ignatius.

But I did not realize how many people are not familiar with the founders of the great orders. This is not the first time that something has been said or done that comes from a particular religious tradition and it leaves everyone (except religious men) grappling for comprehension.

I guess that our mistake has been to assume that people understand us and those around us know about our founders, our history and our vision of the Church.

The solution is to work harder in the area of catechesis, to get back to a time when people knew what a Jesuit was thinking, why a Franciscan looked like a slob, or what a Dominican was preaching.
I would say that I wish clergy and religious would never assume that the laity know what they’re talking about. Again, as I’ve said before, you don’t have to infantilize us, but please just be more explicit. That would help a lot. I did not know that phrase was part of a letter from Inego. However, if the Pope had explained that little background bit–yes yes I know he doesn’t “have” to–then it would have been much easier to understand.
 
I have read a couple of homilies recently in which Pope Francis mentioned clericalism. So when I first saw this headline, I took it to mean that he wanted the youth to help fight clericalism.

I think that might actually be a part of what he meant during his address to the youth. I guess we’ll see.
 
I would say that I wish clergy and religious would never assume that the laity know what they’re talking about. Again, as I’ve said before, you don’t have to infantilize us, but please just be more explicit. That would help a lot. I did not know that phrase was part of a letter from Inego. However, if the Pope had explained that little background bit–yes yes I know he doesn’t “have” to–then it would have been much easier to understand.
I understand your frustration with the situation. I don’t think that inserting a footnote when one is speaking is always the answer either. To stop and explain that this comes from a letter written by St. Ignatius can have one of two negative effects. First, it may distract. Second, secular priests and bishops can resent it. They’re secular men, not consecrated religious. It can come across sounding biased.

There is always the issue of time. If you’re giving a talk, as was this case, you’re on the clock. You have to be very concise. Pope Francis has already taken fire from his staff for going off the script and the schedule.

On the other side, I certain see what you mean. It is important that seculars, lay or clergy, know what’s happening. I founded a large program that covers three counties with more than one million Catholics. It’s pastoral methodology is taken directly from the Franciscan playbook, if there were one. I mean to say that it’s taken from our pastoral tradition. We’ve done ministry in a certain way with a very specific worldview and ecclesiology for 800 years. No matter which branch of the Franciscan order you belong to, Clare and Francis are always your point of reference. The question is always, “How would Clare and Francis do this?”

As the program expanded, I needed lay volunteers. I trained them in the needs of the people whom we serve. Throughout their training I kept insisting that the vision was Franciscan and that without that vision, the ministry would fail. However, I just assumed that any Catholic would be familiar with Francis and Clare of Assisi. They’re two of the most popular saints in Church history and Francis is one of the greatest reformers of Church history, along with St. Dominic. I didn’t go into Franciscan ecclesiology, Franciscan worldview and Franciscan methods in pastoral care.

I soon found that as I handed over centers to the lay volunteers, these centers which had been vibrant when the brothers and I worked them directly, started to lose people. In other words, the program was threatened. After several meetings with the lay volunteers, it became very clear to me that what they knew about St. Francis was very little. They had never read his writings. They had paid a lot of attention to his poverty and simplicity, but never paid much attention to his ecclesiology and world view. They certainly had not paid any attention to his methods in ministry.

They all assumed that because Clare was a cloistered nun, she had nothing to say about the active apostolate. Nothing could be further from the truth when talking about a Franciscan nun. Our cloistered nuns are a different breed. Look at Mother Angelica.

I had to go back and develop an six week training program for our lay volunteers to walk them through the mind of Francis and Clare. Once we did all that, the program picked up. The volunteers understood their mission and how to do it, because now they understood my language. They understood such terms as: unquestioning obedience, detachment from our ideas and opinions, feel with the Church, non-clerical priesthood, fraternal ministry and more.

This experience taught me that those of us who understand these things, have an obligation to teach it to those who do not. In this case, those who watched the talk show where there Franciscans discussed the Holy Father’s talk would have learned what he meant, because the Franciscans broke it down. Those who did not, are lost or at the very least not too clear. There is a lot under that statement. Ignatius meant a great deal. The statement had to be unpacked. The friars spend a good 20 minutes explaining it. This takes me back to the time element. The pope doesn’t have 20 minutes to explain Ignatius. If he does that, his original talk is lost and he would need more time to get back on track. Those who are not Jesuits would be wondering why they were subjected to 20 minutes on Ignatius.

Another point that I have to make in the Holy Father’s defense is what I always say. He’s a 76 year old Jesuit. I’m 63. I know that I speak “Franciscan English”. It comes naturally to me. I never think about it until someone asks, “What does that mean?” This must certainly be the case with a 76 year old Jesuit.-Franciscan. This is where asking questions and trust come into the picture.
 
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