Pope Francis wants Church to be poor, and for the poor

[7armyrugrats]

I believe the poor he speaks of (in terms of a poor church) are the poor in spirit.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom shall be theirs…”

I think we are being called to live according to the Beattitudes. We are asked to humbly serve on another, especially “the least of our brothers.”

 

[The_Scott]

I believe the poor he speaks of (in terms of a poor church) are the poor in spirit.

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, the kingdom shall be theirs…”

I think we are being called to live according to the Beattitudes. We are asked to humbly serve on another, especially “the least of our brothers.”

This would make sense, considering his call to Gospel simplicity. But in context, he was talking about Francis of Assisi.

 

[kelvinf]

Well this is what he said in relation to the poor:

*Some people wanted to know why the Bishop of Rome wished to be called Francis. Some thought of Francis Xavier, Francis De Sales, and also Francis of Assisi. I will tell you the story. During the election, I was seated next to the Archbishop Emeritus of São Paolo and Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Claudio Hummes: a good friend, a good friend! When things were looking dangerous, he encouraged me. And when the votes reached two thirds, there was the usual applause, because the Pope had been elected. And he gave me a hug and a kiss, and said: “Don’t forget the poor!” And those words came to me: the poor, the poor. Then, right away, thinking of the poor, I thought of Francis of Assisi. Then I thought of all the wars, as the votes were still being counted, till the end. Francis is also the man of peace. That is how the name came into my heart: Francis of Assisi. For me, he is the man of poverty, the man of peace, the man who loves and protects creation; these days we do not have a very good relationship with creation, do we? He is the man who gives us this spirit of peace, the poor man … How I would like a Church which is poor and for the poor! Afterwards, people were joking with me. *

And here is a link to the full text. news.va/en/news/pope-francis-to-media-representatives-full-text

I don’t think the reuter link is at odds with this at all.

I didn’t say so. I watched the whole thing live. I don’t think that was the core of his message. That’s my point.

 

[thomasf]

I don’t like how the articles talk about the ‘contrast with Benedict’ as if the last pope was somehow worse than our new pope. I don’t like those comparisons at all. Each pope has his own callings and things they want to focus on. Just because Pope Benedict didn’t do these simple things that Pope Francis is doing, that doesn’t make him a ‘bad’ pope. Pope Benedict was a fine pope and the comparisons are unfair.

I also hate reading the comments after these articles. So many bitter and angry people hating on the church.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I think some people think that St. Francis wanted Mass to held in barns and the fields, and the Eucharist placed in tin cups and boxes, all in the name of ‘poverty.’

As other posters well versed in Franciscan writings, such as JR Education, have told us, that is NOT what St. Francis advocated AT ALL.

Some people are going to be surprised!

 

[CutlerB]

I think some people think that St. Francis wanted Mass to held in barns and the fields, and the Eucharist placed in tin cups and boxes, all in the name of ‘poverty.’

As other posters well versed in Franciscan writings, such as JR Education, have told us, that is NOT what St. Francis advocated AT ALL.

Some people are going to be surprised!

Very Good. Very, very good!

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I imagine George Weigel, Supreme Knight Carl A. Anderson, Fr. Robert Sirico, Thomas E. Woods, Paul Ryan, and the president of the Ayn Rand Society on the phone this morning in a conference call saying, “WHAT do we do now?!”

And I imagine that you imagine incorrectly.

The Church is not a political body. It “calls out” both the right (as the Holy Father did a bit above) and the left (where the Church does not permit voting for politicians that support gay “marriage” and abortion; where it opposes wacko Masses, women priests, etc)

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I think some people think that St. Francis wanted Mass to held in barns and the fields, and the Eucharist placed in tin cups and boxes, all in the name of ‘poverty.’

As other posters well versed in Franciscan writings, such as JR Education, have told us, that is NOT what St. Francis advocated AT ALL.

Some people are going to be surprised!

Amen! St Francis was an orthodox Catholic, which is why his movement is still alive, and movements of his time that seemed to be similar, but were against the Church are not.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Well this is what he said in relation to the poor:

*Some people wanted to know why the Bishop of Rome wished to be called Francis. Some thought of Francis Xavier, Francis De Sales, and also Francis of Assisi. I will tell you the story. During the election, I was seated next to the Archbishop Emeritus of São Paolo and Prefect Emeritus of the Congregation for the Clergy, Cardinal Claudio Hummes: a good friend, a good friend! When things were looking dangerous, he encouraged me. And when the votes reached two thirds, there was the usual applause, because the Pope had been elected. And he gave me a hug and a kiss, and said: “Don’t forget the poor!” And those words came to me: the poor, the poor. Then, right away, thinking of the poor, I thought of Francis of Assisi. Then I thought of all the wars, as the votes were still being counted, till the end. Francis is also the man of peace. That is how the name came into my heart: Francis of Assisi. For me, he is the man of poverty, the man of peace, the man who loves and protects creation; these days we do not have a very good relationship with creation, do we? He is the man who gives us this spirit of peace, the poor man … How I would like a Church which is poor and for the poor! Afterwards, people were joking with me. *

And here is a link to the full text. news.va/en/news/pope-francis-to-media-representatives-full-text

I don’t think the reuter link is at odds with this at all.

Way to go Holy Father!

I am a conservative, politically. This does not mean that I am for everything being paved over; that I am for endless development which builds throw away communities instead of redeveloping existing communities; that I am for the type of “big business” that is soulless and often the enemy of the Church’s values.

Our Lord gave us creation to steward, not to rape and pillage. We have a responsibility to nurture nature. The farmer who leaves aside a wild patch on his land so that there is a place for the wild things.

Leftism practiced to it’s extreme leads to death (abortion, etc) and the poverty and dehuminization of the individual under communism.

Rightism practiced to it’s extreme leads to corporate welfare and the dehuminization of the individual as merely a cog in the soulless big business machine. (Incidentally, rightism does not equal conservatism).

We may be seeing the mixing of the worst of both these days, sadly. The only solution is Christ.

 

[7armyrugrats]

This would make sense, considering his call to Gospel simplicity. But in context, he was talking about Francis of Assisi.

Yes, I agree. But didn’t St. Francis live out the Gospels more perfectly than anyone besides Jesus? Didn’t St. Francis live by the Beattitudes? Only time will tell what Pope Francis means exactly I guess.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Yes, I agree. But didn’t St. Francis live out the Gospels more perfectly than anyone besides Jesus? Didn’t St. Francis live by the Beattitudes? .

He did.
However, he was the one doing the charity. He didn’t ask his fellow citizens to be taxed, so that he could use the money to serve the poor.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

He did.
However, he was the one doing the charity. He didn’t ask his fellow citizens to be taxed, so that he could use the money to serve the poor.

St. Francis was fairly orthodox, wasn’t he? He never tried to upset Church apple carts from what I understand.

 

[Lormar]

Since the cathedral in Buenos Aires still has its artwork, gold candlesticks, etc. I don’t think he is talking about stripping things out of the Vatican to sell. But if he means that bishops can get along without personal chefs than he has traction. I don’t think that every bishop needs to cook all his own meals, but certainly things could be a bit more austere in many places including many seminaries and rectories.

I hope you are right, Mrs. Sally.

 

[7armyrugrats]

He did.
However, he was the one doing the charity. He didn’t ask his fellow citizens to be taxed, so that he could use the money to serve the poor.

Once again I agree. And I don’t think many others would disagree. That’s why we are called, not forced.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

St. Francis was fairly orthodox, wasn’t he? He never tried to upset Church apple carts from what I understand.

Yup. This is why his movement still exists. One of his first acts when he had followers was to go to Roma to get papal approval.

 

[The_Bucket]

Yup. This is why his movement still exists. One of his first acts when he had followers was to go to Roma to get papal approval.

He was extremely persistent, but also obedient.

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

He was extremely persistent, but also obedient.

Exactly.

 

[Bartolome_Casas]

A friend wrote in this thread: “St. Francis was fairly orthodox, wasn’t he? He never tried to upset Church apple carts from what I understand.”

Well, I hate to upset the apple cart of this thread, but if you read a thorough and historically accurate biography of Saint Francis, I think you will see that Saint Francis and his movement were viewed as a dire threat by the popes and most bishops. In the end, his movement was approved, but only after it was changed contrary to the wishes and strong objections of Saint Francis. In the end, Saint Francis felt as if his movement had been crushed. After Saint Francis died, there were movements started by Catholics attempting to resurrect the original movement that Saint Francis has started. They in turn were ruthlessly hunted down and crushed by Church authorities. In truth, while Saint Francis was orthodox in term of doctrine, he was very radical in calling popes, bishops and priests to stop living lives of luxury above the common people, and in calling the Church leaders to break with their habit of being defenders and supporters of the rich and start being defenders and supporters of the poor. These aren’t my opinions. Go and get an honest, thorough biography Saint Francis, go get an honest, thorough history of the Franciscan movement, and you’ll see that this is all accurate.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

Yup. This is why his movement still exists. One of his first acts when he had followers was to go to Roma to get papal approval.

Than I can safely assume he will not empty Vatican coffers or sell St. Peter’s Basilica and donate the proceeds to the poor?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

I think you will see that Saint Francis and his movement were viewed as a dire threat by the popes and most bishops.

I don’t know about the bishops, but that statement regarding the popes is simply untrue. Innocent III was a great admirer of Francis.