Pope Francis wants greater roles for women in the Church.

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I once again say, let the Pope,decide,with the Holy Spirit as his guide,and let not us keep on this subject,because the devil is trying to turn us against one another. God ,Jesus,and Mary,Help us,and have Mercy on us.
 
I once again say, let the Pope,decide,with the Holy Spirit as his guide,and let not us keep on this subject,because the devil is trying to turn us against one another. God ,Jesus,and Mary,Help us,and have Mercy on us.
I think the Holy Spirit wants us to have healthy and respectful dialogue.
 
Do American Catholics not read John Paul II’s On the Dignity & Vocation of Women? Americans are usually the most illiterate on Church and Papal documents and they are the first to start asking for female ordination. It’s really tired.
 
Do American Catholics not read John Paul II’s On the Dignity & Vocation of Women? Americans are usually the most illiterate on Church and Papal documents and they are the first to start asking for female ordination. It’s really tired.
Don’t blame everybody. Blame American secular media. I post links all the time but there’s a devoted group here that appears whenever something twistable appears.

I’m waiting on the Pope, who will let everyone know when he’s ready.

Peace,
Ed
 
Don’t blame everybody. Blame American secular media. I post links all the time but there’s a devoted group here that appears whenever something twistable appears.

I’m waiting on the Pope, who will let everyone know when he’s ready.

Peace,
Ed
I find that too 😉
 
Do American Catholics not read John Paul II’s On the Dignity & Vocation of Women? …
That’s a good document. I’m surprised no one mentioned it before.

Just for fun I thought I’d check out roles of some of the women in the document

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html
In every age and in every country we find many “perfect” women (cf. Prov. 31:10) who, despite persecution, difficulties and discrimination, have shared in the Church’s mission. It suffices to mention: Monica, the mother of Augustine, Macrina, Olga of Kiev, Matilda of Tuscany, Hedwig of Silesia, Jadwiga of Cracow, Elizabeth of Thuringia, Birgitta of Sweden, Joan of Arc, Rose of Lima, Elizabeth Ann Seton and Mary Ward.
Pope John Paul II references Proverbs 31

Ode to a Capable Wife (NRSV CE)

10 A capable wife who can find?
She is far more precious than jewels.
11 The heart of her husband trusts in her,
and he will have no lack of gain.
12 She does him good, and not harm,
all the days of her life.
13 She seeks wool and flax,
and works with willing hands.
14 She is like the ships of the merchant,
she brings her food from far away.
15 She rises while it is still night
and provides food for her household
and tasks for her servant-girls.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
with the fruit of her hands she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength,
and makes her arms strong.
18 She perceives that her merchandise is profitable.
Her lamp does not go out at night.
19 She puts her hands to the distaff,
and her hands hold the spindle.
20 She opens her hand to the poor,
and reaches out her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid for her household when it snows,
for all her household are clothed in crimson.
22 She makes herself coverings;
her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the city gates,
taking his seat among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them;
she supplies the merchant with sashes.
25 Strength and dignity are her clothing,
and she laughs at the time to come.
26 She opens her mouth with wisdom,
and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
27 She looks well to the ways of her household,
and does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and call her happy;
her husband too, and he praises her:
29 ‘Many women have done excellently,
but you surpass them all.’
30 Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain,
but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised.
31 Give her a share in the fruit of her hands,
and let her works praise her in the city gates.

Now for the women:

First up is Monica, the mother of Augustine: a virtuous and prayerful woman unhappily married to a pagan, who prayed her son to sainthood.

Macrina: a saint and one of the most prominent nuns of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Older sister to Basil the Great, Saint Gregory of Nyssa, and Peter of Sebaste whom she infuluenced to follw an ascetic life.

Olga of Kiev: ruler of Kievan Rus’ as regent for her son, and the first ruler of Rus to convert to Christianity.

Matilda of Tuscany: an Italian noblewoman, the principal Italian supporter of Pope Gregory VII against the German King Henry IV. She is one of the few medieval women to be remembered for her military accomplishments.

Hedwig of Silesia: Noble woman married young to a Duke, bore him 7 sons, when he died became a Cisterican Nun, credited with great sanctity and many miracles.

Jadwiga of Krakow: monarch of Poland from 1384 to her death. Her official title was ‘king’ not ‘queen’, since she was a sovereign in her own right and not merely a royal consort.

Elizabeth of Hungary, T.O.S.F., princess of the Kingdom of Hungary, Landgravine of Thuringia, Germany and a greatly venerated Catholic saint. Elizabeth was married at the age of 14, and widowed at 20. After her husband’s death she sent her children away and regained her dowry, using the money to build a hospital where she herself served the sick. She became a symbol of Christian charity after her death at the age of 24 and was quickly canonized.

Bridget of Sweden: a mystic and saint, and founder of the Bridgettines nuns and monks after the death of her husband of twenty years. She was also the mother of Catherine of Vadstena.

Joan of Arc, “The Maid of Orléans” folk heroine of France and a Catholic saint; born to a peasant family in north-east France. Claiming divine guidance, she led the French army to several important victories during the Hundred Years’ War, which paved the way for the coronation of Charles VII of France. Captured by the Burgundians, transferred to the English in exchange for money, put on trial by the pro-English Bishop of Beauvais for charges of “insubordination and heterodoxy”,and burned at the stake for heresy when she was 19 years old. Canonized in 1920.

Rose of Lima, T.O.S.D., a Spanish colonist in Lima, Peru, who became known for both her life of severe asceticism and her care of the needy of the city through her own private efforts. A lay member of the Dominican Order, she was the first person born in the Americas to be canonized by the Catholic Church.
 
contd:

Elizabeth Ann Seton, S.C.,the first native-born citizen of the United States to be canonized by the Church. She established the first Catholic school in the nation, at Emmitsburg, Maryland, where she founded the first American congregation of Religious Sisters, the Sisters of Charity.

Mary Ward, I.B.V.M. an English Catholic Religious Sister during the religious tumult in the England, founded the Congregation of Jesus and the Institute of the Blessed Virgin Mary (Sisters of Loreto) which have both established schools around the world.

Ward was declared Venerable by Pope Benedict XVI on 19 December 2009; this is the first of three steps on the path to being declared a saint.

Definitely NOT “little women” but powerful women who made history and influenced nations and great saints.

Pope John Paul II concludes this section saying:
The witness and the achievements of Christian women have had a significant impact on the life of the Church as well as of society. Even in the face of serious social discrimination, holy women have acted “freely”, strengthened by their union with Christ. Such union and freedom rooted in God explain, for example, the great work of Saint Catherine of Siena in the life of the Church, and the work of Saint Teresa of Jesus in the monastic life.
In our own days too the Church is constantly enriched by the witness of the many women who fulfil their vocation to holiness. Holy women are an incarnation of the feminine ideal; they are also a model for all Christians, a model of the “sequela Christi”, an example of how the Bride must respond with love to the love of the Bridegroom.
 
Do American Catholics not read John Paul II’s On the Dignity & Vocation of Women? Americans are usually the most illiterate on Church and Papal documents and they are the first to start asking for female ordination. It’s really tired.
Then why do you and others introduce it to this discussion when it was not part of it?
 
My last church they sang happy birthday after communion which on the surface seems harmless but if you put in context of the sacrificial offering and not allowing people to properly thank the Lord after communion is bad we also never said any of the creeds which bothered me and we always started mass at like 10 after 9:00AM and no one prepared themselves for mass either everyone was allowed to talk before mass. My last priest used to make fun of the Bishop that is when I had enough.
Right after communion, inappropriate, save on christmas, where it’s just tacky.

At the end of the liturgy, it’s a secularized parallel of the Byzantine tradition - the priest usually intones “May God grant to his servant(s) n. on the occasion of (his/her/their) birthday(s), many blessed years”, responded to by the singing of “God grant them many years! God grant them many years, God grant them many blessed years! In health and happiness, In health and happiness, God grant them many blessed years!”

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask the pastor if he’d call the birthday person up for a birthday blessing instead of singing happy birthday… I’ve seen a few smaller Roman parishes where that was done for all persons whose birthdays were in the prior week.
 
At the end of the liturgy, it’s a secularized parallel of the Byzantine tradition - the priest usually intones “May God grant to his servant(s) n. on the occasion of (his/her/their) birthday(s), many blessed years”, responded to by the singing of “God grant them many years! God grant them many years, God grant them many blessed years! In health and happiness, In health and happiness, God grant them many blessed years!”
I imagine at the Polish Masses they would sing “Sto lat” (May you live a 100 years.)

youtube.com/watch?v=ZDl6oWohq7k
 
Right after communion, inappropriate, save on christmas, where it’s just tacky.

At the end of the liturgy, it’s a secularized parallel of the Byzantine tradition - the priest usually intones “May God grant to his servant(s) n. on the occasion of (his/her/their) birthday(s), many blessed years”, responded to by the singing of “God grant them many years! God grant them many years, God grant them many blessed years! In health and happiness, In health and happiness, God grant them many blessed years!”

Perhaps it would be worthwhile to ask the pastor if he’d call the birthday person up for a birthday blessing instead of singing happy birthday… I’ve seen a few smaller Roman parishes where that was done for all persons whose birthdays were in the prior week.
That is very beautiful.

-Tim-
 
The primary role model for men and women both:
news.va/en/news/pope-mary-as-model-of-faith-charity-and-union-with
Please find below the full English language text summarizing his catechesis:
Dear Brothers and Sisters:
In our continuing catechesis on the Church, we now look to the Virgin Mary who, as the Second Vatican Council reminds us, is “the model of the Church in the order of faith, charity and perfect union with Christ” (Lumen Gentium, 63). As a daughter of Israel, Mary responded in faith to God’s call and became the Mother of his Son. She teaches us to live a life of faith by her obedience to God’s will and by her unfailing devotion to Jesus and his work. Mary also models the Church’s charity, born of faith, which brings the joy and peace of Christ’s presence to others and to our world. Finally, Mary models the Church’s union with Christ through her constant prayer and participation in the mysteries of his life, death and resurrection. As Mother of the Church, may Mary, by her prayers, bring us ever closer to the Lord, open our hearts to share his transforming and redeeming love, and inspire us to put our firm faith in God’s word, trusting in his goodness and his gracious plan for us and for our world.
 
Women already have a very substantial role in The Church. In case we haven’t noticed, the Blessed Mother is a woman. Does anyone deny that She has a substantial role in The Church? Being mothers and raising Catholic families is a tremendous responsibility. It requires strength, devotion, and many other admirable qualities. God gives women special graces when they accept the roles He gives to them. I do not have to be a priest to feel validated in God’s Church. This entire question seems to be along the lines of making women equal to men. We already are. We are different in our strengths, in our roles but we are made as God made us. To be one with our husbands. If a woman wants to devote her life to God then in humility she will submit and obey The Church. Not rally to change The Church to suit her needs. There are women religious orders. It’s the people that need to be humble and obey God.
 
Decision making is frequently seen as an important role.

I would hope that in due course women may have a more central role in the decision making within God’s church.

This is not a remark about priesthood or episcopacy.

Re-membering baptism
 
Decision making is frequently seen as an important role.

I would hope that in due course women may have a more central role in the decision making within God’s church.

This is not a remark about priesthood or episcopacy.

Re-membering baptism

Like what decisions are you talking about? What time to have Holy Thursday mass when it falls in late April and Sundown doesn’t happen until after 7:30PM? Meatless Fridays all year round? The Church has a concise theology. It seems to me that most American Catholics aren’t familiar with the Catechism and have never read it or the Compendium of the Catechism and Papal Encyclicals but they want to change things based on their relativistic secularized society. The rest of the universal church is highly skeptical of American Catholics because they scare people with their secularist mindsets whether it is intentional or unintentional. Your group called Catholics for Choice is trying to get the Vatican kicked out of the UN. The lax Catholicism in the US hurts every Catholic in the world
 
Do the sacred congregations and Vatican decision making bodies have to be so populated by men…

That kind of decision making body.

(By the way I am not an American Catholic)
 
Do the sacred congregations and Vatican decision making bodies have to be so populated by men…

That kind of decision making body.

(By the way I am not an American Catholic)
I am not so sure Pope Francis is going to keep those around.
 
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