Pope Francis wants greater roles for women in the Church.

[Elizabeth502]

It’s not about getting praise, it’s about being able to contribute to the best of one’s ability. That’s what people mean by “recognition” in this context.

Where is that happening? Women, as a gender, are not prevented from any roles except clerical in the Church. There are “opportunities to contribute,” abundantly. I’m speaking of categorically. If a particular woman is not being “allowed” to manage or oversee a particular lay ministry or lay group within the Church, or to operate in some position in the Curia, that is not categorical discrimination. She may be unsuitable for the position; she may have a personality clash with lay or clerical members of the team. Just like men, women don’t get to do merely everything they want in life just because they desire it. Such disappointments are part of daily life, and hardly “not being able to contribute” or “not being recognized.”

What if women genuinely have vocations inspired by the Holy Spirit and they are unable to follow their call because the role of women is not recognized and their contributions are discouraged.

Then they grow up. (See above.) They realize – since a true vocation from God will not be denied by an obedient daughter of God – that the vocation was either not truly “inspired by the Holy Spirit” or it will happen in a different way, etc.

 

[triumphguy]

So, what did the Pope mean?

 

[Mark121359]

It’s not about getting praise, it’s about being able to contribute to the best of one’s ability.

To me It’s about gaining some sense of control or power…and all under the clever disguise of diversity and equality…brilliant!

Where is that happening? Women, as a gender, are not prevented from any roles except clerical in the Church

It’s not happening. Women haven’t been prevented from any of these roles as you yourself suggested…except the ones that many progressive women seem to desire! There is a persistent, veiled attempt by Catholic modernists and the secular media to draw sympathy to this theme, that women are oppressed by the Catholic Church. And they’ve been rather successful I might add! In most polls now, American Catholics support 60 – 30 percent, the ordination of women priests for example. They’re apparently succeeding at creating an inbred distrust of Catholic hierarchy, given its all male structure, with great affect indeed!

Peace, Mark

 

[KP3243]

Quote:
What if women genuinely have vocations inspired by the Holy Spirit and they are unable to follow their call because the role of women is not recognized and their contributions are discouraged.​

The Holy Spirit wouldn’t do that, Jesus is the Head of the Catholic Church and the Pope is protected from doing something against Jesus desire for His Church it could even result in a Pope’s death if he was going to go against Jesus.

By the way women are the head of the domestic church.

 

[KP3243]

But they are hardly given the recognition they so richly deserve, which is the problem. We cannot ordain them, of course, but what has been implicit must be made explicit.

Joseph is hardly mentioned in the Bible does that mean he didn’t get the recognition he deserved? God asked Joseph to fulfill the role as the earthly father of His only Son, no one else was assigned this impossible task but We know more and hear a lot from Saint Paul, so was Joseph’s role deemed less important? All that matters is how your work is recognized by God not man.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

It’s not about getting praise, it’s about being able to contribute to the best of one’s ability. That’s what people mean by “recognition” in this context.

What if women genuinely have vocations inspired by the Holy Spirit and they are unable to follow their call because the role of women is not recognized and their contributions are discouraged. (AND I"M NOT TALKING ORDINATION SO DON:T GO THERE)

Triumphguy-
I understand what you are saying and I tend to agree with you.

This thread, probably because it is in the “Traditional” sub-forum, is filled with sentiments that I believe are part of the problem for many women in the Church, including me.

It seems to me that there are 2 camps (which I alluded to in my first post in this thread)- either “full equality” for women (read - ORDINATION) or be a wife & mother or join the religious life. There are not many options there.

I am a married woman, who was never graced by God with children. Does that mean I have no place in the Chruch? I hope not, but that is how I feel sometimes. Woman have many gifts and talents that can be used to further the kingdom. Not all of us are called to be wives, mothers or religious sisters, so does that mean, because I am not one of these I must want to be a priest? That is my impression from many of these posts.

While I do not know what the Holy Father meant, I like to believe that he is thinking something along the same lines as I am- we all have gifts & talents, that have been given to us by a loving & merciful God. To squander, or worse yet, not use those gifts becasue they do not fit into someone else’s agenda is a very sad thing. What I think Pope Francis is doing is asking us to do is to think “outside of the box” and find ways that women, all women, can rise above the secualr mind-set that has invaded “gender relations” and to become the women that are created in the image and likeness of God.

 

[KP3243]

All this nonsense about the role God is asking each of us to play in His plan and not being happy with the role He gave you sounds a lot like a rebellious angel who didn’t like his role and was kicked out of Heaven because of it.

 

[Memaw]

But they are hardly given the recognition they so richly deserve, which is the problem. We cannot ordain them, of course, but what has been implicit must be made explicit.

Needing recognition seems a bit like bragging, No grace for bragging. Gospel for today, Luke 18:9-14, good example. Maybe a little humility would help. God Bless, Memaw

 

[triumphguy]

Needing recognition seems a bit like bragging, No grace for bragging. Gospel for today, Luke 18:9-14, good example. Maybe a little humility would help. God Bless, Memaw

recognition = recognizing gifts, not praise and bragging

 

[triumphguy]

So, what did the Pope mean?

To me It’s about gaining some sense of control or power…and all under the clever disguise of diversity and equality…brilliant!

It’s not happening. Women haven’t been prevented from any of these roles as you yourself suggested…except the ones that many progressive women seem to desire! There is a persistent, veiled attempt by Catholic modernists and the secular media to draw sympathy to this theme, that women are oppressed by the Catholic Church. And they’ve been rather successful I might add! In most polls now, American Catholics support 60 – 30 percent, the ordination of women priests for example. They’re apparently succeeding at creating an inbred distrust of Catholic hierarchy, given its all male structure, with great affect indeed!

Peace, Mark

Quote:
What if women genuinely have vocations inspired by the Holy Spirit and they are unable to follow their call because the role of women is not recognized and their contributions are discouraged.​

The Holy Spirit wouldn’t do that, Jesus is the Head of the Catholic Church and the Pope is protected from doing something against Jesus desire for His Church it could even result in a Pope’s death if he was going to go against Jesus.

By the way women are the head of the domestic church.

All this nonsense about the role God is asking each of us to play in His plan and not being happy with the role He gave you sounds a lot like a rebellious angel who didn’t like his role and was kicked out of Heaven because of it.

Needing recognition seems a bit like bragging, No grace for bragging. Gospel for today, Luke 18:9-14, good example. Maybe a little humility would help. God Bless, Memaw

So another little summary -

Apparently the role of women in the Church is just fine.

The Pope was just wasting his breath.

Some women are just uppity.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

Needing recognition seems a bit like bragging, No grace for bragging. Gospel for today, Luke 18:9-14, good example. Maybe a little humility would help. God Bless, Memaw

S-I-G-H…

I cringe when I read things like this. Just because I am a woman, it seems that the only thing I can offer to the Chruch is my life as a religious sister or as a wife & mother, is this what you are all saying? If I want to use my gifts & talents in a ways that enrich the Kingdom, these are my only options?

Well, God obviously has other plans for me, because He called me to be a married woman, and then saw fit to not grace me with children. Does that mean He is “punishing” me, and that my only place in the Church is that of “spectator”?
I don’t believe that is what God wants for me. Not having children has given me the opportunity to be more free with my time, my talents and what little treasure I have. I have spent the past 7 years studying theology & pastoral ministry at the graduate level. I am taking the same classes that those men who will be ordained to the permanant diaconate are taking. I am doing it for my own enrichment, but that does not mean that I don’t want to “give back”. It does not mean that I am looking for recognition or that I am bragging. What is means is that I want to use the gifts I have been given to help spead the Gospel message. God did not give me a “family”, so I must go outside the norm to use these gifts. I, and many women that I know who are in my situation, feel the same way- that because we are not religious sisters or mothers, we have no place in the Church. This doesn’t mean that all I am seeking is ordination, it means I am looking to the Church to give me answers as to how to use my gifts & talents in a way that would be useful to her, and for the propogation of His Kingdom.

I really don’t understand why some people have such a problem with this.

 

[Memaw]

recognition = recognizing gifts, not praise and bragging

You are entirely missing my point! Read the Gospel for today!. God Bless, Memaw

 

[triumphguy]

You are entirely missing my point! Read the Gospel for today!. God Bless, Memaw

You seem to be missing what “recognition” means in this context.

Mary was humble - yet she was “recognized.”

 

[ProVobis]

Mary was humble - yet she was “recognized.”

What do you mean, “yet”?

I think I’m missing something here.

 

[TheresaLS]

What do you mean, “yet”?

Mary was recognized but by todays standards not “enough”. I strive to be more like Our Blessed Mother by her example not by other’s wishes and dreams.

 

[Memaw]

You seem to be missing what “recognition” means in this context.

Mary was humble - yet she was “recognized.”

And she didn’t demand a thing or expect praise, She did the praising of God. We could all use her beautiful example of true humility in our thinking. God Bless, Memaw

 

[triumphguy]

And she didn’t demand a thing or expect praise, She did the praising of God. We could all use her beautiful example of true humility in our thinking. God Bless, Memaw

Who is asking for praise?

I don’t get where you are coming from.

 

[edwest2]

And she didn’t demand a thing or expect praise, She did the praising of God. We could all use her beautiful example of true humility in our thinking. God Bless, Memaw

Amen.

Ed

 

[triumphguy]

And, women are supposed to be humble. (Which has nothing to do with recognizing roles)

But what was the Pope asking?

 

[clem456]

Vatican City, Oct 12, 2013 / 08:36 am (CNA/EWTN News).- Pope Francis met with experts on women’s issues today in Rome, affirming that the Church must continue to work for a more profound understanding of women and their roles.

“Also in the Church it is important to ask ourselves: what presence does woman have? Can it be valued more?” the Pope asked.

He met with experts who had participated in a seminar marking the 25th anniversary of Blessed John Paul II’s apostolic letter, “On the Dignity and Vocation of Women.” The two-day seminar was sponsored by the Pontifical Council of the Laity.

Pope Francis said the presence of women in the Church is “a reality that is very much on my heart.” He said he wanted to meet the seminar participants “and bless you and your task.”

He noted that John Paul II’s apostolic letter teaches that “God entrusts man, the human being, to woman in a special way.”

“What does this ‘special entrustment’ mean?” asked Pope Francis.

“I think it is evident that my predecessor refers to motherhood,” he explained. “And this is not simply a biological fact, but it involves a wealth of implications both for woman herself, for her way of being, and for her relationships, for a way of extending respect for human life and for life in general.”

The Pope then warned of two ever-present dangers, “two extreme opposites that degrade woman and her vocation.”

“The first is to reduce motherhood to a social role, to a task, however noble, but in fact sets apart woman with her potential, not fully valuing her in the construction of the community,” he noted.

The second peril is that of “promoting a type of emancipation that, in order to occupy the space stolen by the masculine, abandons the feminine with its priceless elements.”

He said women can help provide better insight into the nature of God.