Pope Francis washes feet

[Lucky7]

I am well aware of that web page. It says nothing about any exception being granted by the Vatican. In fact, unless there is something else, it looks like it never went any further than a USCCB committee. The next step would ordinarily be for the USCCB to vote to ask for a US-specific change to the rubric. This statement from the committee was in 1987 and still no action to change the rubric.

Ah, I see. Then if that is true, then it is possible that I took part in a Feet Washing that went against the rubric not once, but…twice? It’s kind of ironic that I would be taking part in a liturgical abuse and not even knowing it. Interesting.

 

[Brendan_64]

Well I’m Irish, and it is just factually correct to say that Ireland is part of Europe. Not only is it part of the continent Europe it is a proud member of the EU. What Irishmen are opposed to is being reffered to as members of the british Isles, not being members of Europe.

Actually the British Isles is a geographical definition, not a political (or cultural) entity, and as such (whether you like it or not, and regardless of any political boundaries) the island of Ireland IS part of the geographical entity that is the British Isles (not wanting to be part of the British Isles would be a bit like Canada not wanting to be part of North America).

Not wanting to be part of the United Kingdom (of which 26 Counties of Ireland are not) is of course something entirely different.

Just out of interest, are you an Irish-Irishman, or an American-Irishman?

 

[agnes_therese]

Are you praying for those of us who are struggling with this agnes?

Of course.

 

[godisgood77]

I think you are right. For good or bad, I really have a rather fundamentalist approach to this. The bible says the gates of hell shall not prevail. For the same reason I think Protestants are wrong to think the church fell into error, I do not believe we will fall into error now.

I pray others will be granted this same simple surety.

I think of it simply too, but take a different angle… The bible surely says that the gates of hell shall not prevail, which I surely believe. I do not believe that this means the Church can not er, instead it means that the Church will not fall to Satan - as in it will not lose the war, but has, can and will lose battles to Satan.

 

[OneSheep]

Yes, that is what makes a Christian stand out…how they love. Everyone. Poor, rich, black, white, old, Muslim, young, sinners…everyone.

I love this Pope’s message in that he washed the feet of Muslim and female prisoners. Awesome. I like the direction he is going in, it’s clear he is truly inspired by the Holy Spirit.

I agree completely. I do hope and pray, though, that what the pope did, kissing the foot of a Muslim girl was not offensive to Muslims, for that would be somewhat counter-productive. We certainly intend no offense to those we wish to serve.

I wonder what Muslim people think of what the pope did. Does anyone have any insights?

 

[thewanderer]

Actually the British Isles is a geographical definition, not a political (or cultural) entity, and as such (whether you like it or not, and regardless of any political boundaries) the island of Ireland IS part of the geographical entity that is the British Isles (not wanting to be part of the British Isles would be a bit like Canada not wanting to be part of North America).

Not wanting to be part of the United Kingdom (of which 26 Counties of Ireland are not) is of course something entirely different.

Just out of interest, are you an Irish-Irishman, or an American-Irishman?

Good catch, I tend to use the two interchangeably. As for what kind of irishma… well both actually.

 

[shelby_sun]

I agree completely. I do hope and pray, though, that what the pope did, kissing the foot of a Muslim girl was not offensive to Muslims, for that would be somewhat counter-productive. We certainly intend no offense to those we wish to serve.

I wonder what Muslim people think of what the pope did. Does anyone have any insights?

I think Muslims are very intelligent people and common sense would tell them That Pope Francis was trying to do anything but show this person they were loved. As on this site there will always be some who get upset. To me it is more disturbing that Catholics are getting upset about it. The act was pure love and that should have been the focus, nothing else.

 

[McCall1981]

The act was pure love and that should have been the focus, nothing else.

While I pretty much agree with you here on this particular example, I think we have to be careful in saying things like this. There are many people out there who say we should accept gay marriage out of “pure love” as well. If we let concepts like “love” get too divorced from doctrine, they can come to mean anything anyone wants them to mean.

(I’m not at all saying thats what you were doing here, it just made me think of this)

 

[shelby_sun]

While I pretty much agree with you here on this particular example, I think we have to be careful in saying things like this. There are many people out there who say we should accept gay marriage out of “pure love” as well. If we let concepts like “love” get too divorced from doctrine, they can come to mean anything anyone wants them to mean.

(I’m not at all saying thats what you were doing here, it just made me think of this)

Wow, you really need to not take such a simple point and run soooo far with it.

 

[McCall1981]

Wow, you really need to not take such a simple point and run soooo far with it.

I know, I’m sorry, it was tangental. Just on my mind from a different thread

 

[shelby_sun]

I know, I’m sorry, it was tangental. Just on my mind from a different thread

I understand. Don’t watch too much media, they simply are there it get people worked up.

 

[Church_Man]

The disciples of St. Francis asked him, “Should we preach constantly?” And St. Francis replied, “Yes, and if necessary, use words.”

For me, this is what Pope Francis’ example is showing:

By washing the feet of men and women, ALL are called to discipleship - not just men.

When he was in Argentina, he moved out of his mansion, got rid of his limousine, lived in an apartment and took the bus to work. He’s doing similar things in Rome. His example is teaching me that the role of the hierarchy (and us) isn’t about living in luxury, but being an example of Jesus – “When I was hungry, you fed me, when I was in prison, you visited me, when I was thirsty, you gave me a drink.”

The realization is that our Church is digging out of a mess – pedophile priests, lawsuits, horribly mismanaged money, many people feeling alienated from the Church, massive amounts of people who have left the Church, priest shortage, the closing of parishes and Catholic Schools, and others.

How do we dig out? Here’s a thought – live like Jesus. Go out to the people (all people) and live a life of simplicity, kindness, love and encouragement. Welcome everyone, including outcasts, sinners, men, women, and even non-Catholics. Genuinely care about people.

MSN did a poll and asked folks, “How do you feel that the Pope washed the feet of women?”
63% thought it was refreshing.
24% didn’t care.
3% objected to it.

If we are to evangelize and bring people to the faith, we need to be Jesus to them.

 

[OneSheep]

The disciples of St. Francis asked him, “Should we preach constantly?” And St. Francis replied, “Yes, and if necessary, use words.”

For me, this is what Pope Francis’ example is showing:

By washing the feet of men and women, ALL are called to discipleship - not just men.

When he was in Argentina, he moved out of his mansion, got rid of his limousine, lived in an apartment and took the bus to work. He’s doing similar things in Rome. His example is teaching me that the role of the hierarchy (and us) isn’t about living in luxury, but being an example of Jesus – “When I was hungry, you fed me, when I was in prison, you visited me, when I was thirsty, you gave me a drink.”

The realization is that our Church is digging out of a mess – pedophile priests, lawsuits, horribly mismanaged money, many people feeling alienated from the Church, massive amounts of people who have left the Church, priest shortage, the closing of parishes and Catholic Schools, and others.

How do we dig out? Here’s a thought – live like Jesus. Go out to the people (all people) and live a life of simplicity, kindness, love and encouragement. Welcome everyone, including outcasts, sinners, men, women, and even non-Catholics. Genuinely care about people.

MSN did a poll and asked folks, “How do you feel that the Pope washed the feet of women?”
63% thought it was refreshing.
24% didn’t care.
3% objected to it.

If we are to evangelize and bring people to the faith, we need to be Jesus to them.

Great post, thank you so much!

 

[crazzeto]

The disciples of St. Francis asked him, “Should we preach constantly?” And St. Francis replied, “Yes, and if necessary, use words.”

For me, this is what Pope Francis’ example is showing:

By washing the feet of men and women, ALL are called to discipleship - not just men.

When he was in Argentina, he moved out of his mansion, got rid of his limousine, lived in an apartment and took the bus to work. He’s doing similar things in Rome. His example is teaching me that the role of the hierarchy (and us) isn’t about living in luxury, but being an example of Jesus – “When I was hungry, you fed me, when I was in prison, you visited me, when I was thirsty, you gave me a drink.”

The realization is that our Church is digging out of a mess – pedophile priests, lawsuits, horribly mismanaged money, many people feeling alienated from the Church, massive amounts of people who have left the Church, priest shortage, the closing of parishes and Catholic Schools, and others.

How do we dig out? Here’s a thought – live like Jesus. Go out to the people (all people) and live a life of simplicity, kindness, love and encouragement. Welcome everyone, including outcasts, sinners, men, women, and even non-Catholics. Genuinely care about people.

MSN did a poll and asked folks, “How do you feel that the Pope washed the feet of women?”
63% thought it was refreshing.
24% didn’t care.
3% objected to it.

If we are to evangelize and bring people to the faith, we need to be Jesus to them.

Wonderful!

 

[OneSheep]

I think Muslims are very intelligent people and common sense would tell them That Pope Francis was trying to do anything but show this person they were loved. As on this site there will always be some who get upset. To me it is more disturbing that Catholics are getting upset about it. The act was pure love and that should have been the focus, nothing else.

We are like-minded on this. Though I am not really disturbed. We all have our rulebooks to cope with.

So, I contacted my Muslim “son” (exchange program) from Malaysia. He was busy with finals, but he said that the main objection may be that a Muslim person was participating in a Christian service, “as if she were professing a different faith”. He is a teenager, though, and he said he would ask his local imam. I wrote back and said that I would think she could remain faithful to Islam but still allow her feet to be washed.

But I like the idea of retaliation instead. Muslim leaders could retaliate by washing the feet of five Christians, or praying for five Christians, or something like that. Christians could respond by donating money to poor Muslims in Bangladesh. Muslims could one-up by sending aid to poor Christians in sub-Saharan Africa. Imagine the escalation…!!

 

[Brendan_64]

If we are to evangelize and bring people to the faith, we need to be Jesus to them.

 

[Brendan_64]

If we let concepts like “love” get too divorced from doctrine, they can come to mean anything anyone wants them to mean.

1 Corinthians 13:13, “So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

Love is no subservient to doctrine. Love is the core of all doctrine, and if proves not to be then that doctrine should be promptly ditched.

That does not mean however that we ought to condone sin out of some misguided view of love, To do that would not be showing love to our neighbour as it would be condoning a sin that could put his immortal soul in peril.

However, regardless of who our neighbour is, what sex they are, what creed they follow, what sins they may have committed, we are still commanded to love them, unconditionally. That indeed is pure love, unconditional love. I also believe that that is what Pope Francis was doing by washing the feet of a female, Muslim convicted prisoner, acting out of pure unconditional love and sending a message to the rest of us that we should do likewise. That message is far, far more important than any rubric.

Or should the Pope have been mindful to keep to ‘The Law’ rather than use this ritual to spread highlight the most important core Christian value and display this to the world? Rituals are only tools, they are signposts that show the way, they ought to be used to spread the Word and not be preserved in aspic for the sake of ‘tradition.’

 

[Eufrosnia]

The disciples of St. Francis asked him, “Should we preach constantly?” And St. Francis replied, “Yes, and if necessary, use words.”

For me, this is what Pope Francis’ example is showing:

By washing the feet of men and women, ALL are called to discipleship - not just men.

When he was in Argentina, he moved out of his mansion, got rid of his limousine, lived in an apartment and took the bus to work. He’s doing similar things in Rome. His example is teaching me that the role of the hierarchy (and us) isn’t about living in luxury, but being an example of Jesus – “When I was hungry, you fed me, when I was in prison, you visited me, when I was thirsty, you gave me a drink.”

The realization is that our Church is digging out of a mess – pedophile priests, lawsuits, horribly mismanaged money, many people feeling alienated from the Church, massive amounts of people who have left the Church, priest shortage, the closing of parishes and Catholic Schools, and others.

How do we dig out? Here’s a thought – live like Jesus. Go out to the people (all people) and live a life of simplicity, kindness, love and encouragement. Welcome everyone, including outcasts, sinners, men, women, and even non-Catholics. Genuinely care about people.

MSN did a poll and asked folks, “How do you feel that the Pope washed the feet of women?”
63% thought it was refreshing.
24% didn’t care.
3% objected to it.

If we are to evangelize and bring people to the faith, we need to be Jesus to them.

I think the biggest problem today is that everyone wants to have their own opinion of what the Pope is doing. Psychologically, we know that all of this is speculation. We just read our own mindset in to the actions. Then each of us just justify it or get mad at it.

Edited by moderator FOLLOW what they teach. If anything, we should use our attraction that we feel when we see the Pope do X as motivation to LEARN what the Church teaches.

Instead, all we have today mostly are Catholics who want to use the actions to justify their own ends. That is ridiculous. It doesn’t get the Catholic anywhere and it also makes the other faithful Catholics mad. I will go out on a limb here and say that most traditionalist would not be as pissed if non-traditionalist didn’t keep putting so much weight on Papal actions over teachings of the Church and the Pope himself. So far, the Pope has not proclaimed a single official teaching as far as I know. Everything he has actually SAID emphasizes the proper things.

Lets leave it at that without giving our spin.

 

[Eufrosnia]

1 Corinthians 13:13, “So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.”

Love is no subservient to doctrine. Love is the core of all doctrine, and if proves not to be then that doctrine should be promptly ditched.

This is not entirely true. Love is to will the GOOD of another. The “GOOD” is defined by doctrine. So doctrine does come first. All doctrine is supposed to teach a person how to LOVE God and neighbor.

So there is no such thing as we have proven doctrine x is contrary to love. What such a person is saying is that doctrine is hard to reconcile with what I call love. But that just means the person needs to correct himself. Not the doctrine.

 

[thewanderer]

This is not entirely true. Love is to will the GOOD of another. The “GOOD” is defined by doctrine. So doctrine does come first. All doctrine is supposed to teach a person how to LOVE God and neighbor.

So there is no such thing as we have proven doctrine x is contrary to love. What such a person is saying is that doctrine is hard to reconcile with what I call love. But that just means the person needs to correct himself. Not the doctrine.

Nope, sorry, doctrine does not come first. True love is of course never contrary to doctrine, but that doesn’t mean doctrine comes first. The most important aspect of living our faith is to love, deeply and selflessly. You can have all the doctrine you want, but if you do not have love you will never get to heaven. Even the Devil understand what accts are good and what acts are evil, the Devil understands doctrine perfectly, but he lacks Love. Love is THE most fundamental aspect of Christianity. Without it everything else is for nought.