Pope Francis what to do?

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Eternal_Wisdom said:
Wasnt Peter corrected by Paul?
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An interesting thing about that Scripure:

When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face , because he was clearly in the wrong. Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles.

Note the approach Paul took was to do this face to face. Also, Paul did not question Peter’s teaching, but rather his actions. I agree that any bishop, priest, or even a lay person has the ability to deferentially oppose something you think the Pope is doing to his face, that is, directly from you to him. I regret we have departed from that in the Church. The information age is both a curse and a blessing.

If one wants to judge the Pope, such criticism should come slowly, and only after on has studied his position and given it the most favorable of interpetations.
 
Well, I don’t think the sky is falling regardless of what various doomsayers and spin merchants in the hierarchy say, and I think that Pope St. JPII was speaking more of the confrontation with the Soviet Union, which he had intimate knowledge of already. Seems to me we came out ahead, at least until we had a President who cozied up a bit too much to Putin and refused to see that he was being played, but that is another issue.

Your mileage, of course, may vary.
 
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whatistrue said:
Well, I don’t think the sky is falling regardless of what various doomsayers and spin merchants in the hierarchy say,
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How, exactly, do you not see signs of the end times, in these days? Mocking the possibility is not a strong argument.
 
What I see is a group of people who are looking for any possible way to try to make our Pope look bad, even if they have to misrepresent what he says. And I also see some events in the wider world that some would call signs and portents, but nothing that comes remotely close to some of the absolute nastiness that we have survived throughout history. In other words I look around and see Friday. The end of the work week but not the end of the world.
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pnewton said:
Just like Jesus. The Pharisees considered Him and his disciples to be scandalous, as was His death.
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pnewton said:
The people didn’t matter to them: the Law mattered to them, the prescriptions, the rubrics.” Pope Francis 2018
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The people didn’t matter to them because they didn’t believe in God. The Jewish hierarchy was adamant that Jesus was not the messiah and certainly not the son of God in the flesh.

The reason He ate with the sinners and tax collectors, was because they needed Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. Without it they would perish. The majority of what I hear today, is telling me that Jesus ate with them to tell them they weren’t sinners and they didn’t need to repent, convert or be baptized.

The law and everything that went with it wasn’t necessarily bad, Paul states this. It was the Jewish leaders who twisted the law and used it to fit their own agenda. Jesus came in fulfillment of the law and if the Jewish leaders had actually believed in God they would’ve known this.

This analogy by Pope Francis misses the mark for me. If we were living in Jerusalem during the arrival of Jesus, all we would be hearing from the hierarchy is how Jerusalem doesn’t need walls and gates to keep people out. How we need to keep Jerusalem clean and free from pollution.

All the warnings about the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple would’ve gone largely ignored. There would be no call for conversion or baptism, because “God wills the plurality of all religions”.
 
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We certainly see very differently.

I would urge you to examine yourself, honestly and carefully, and discern rightly the answer to this question: Do you seek Truth, above all? No matter the cost, no matter the consequences, TRUTH? If the answer is Yes, without doubt or hesitation, then do as you see right. Jesus IS the Truth. If you seek Him, you are on the right road.
 
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Crusader13 said:
This analogy by Pope Francis misses the mark for me. If we were living in Jerusalem during the arrival of Jesus, all we would be hearing from the hierarchy is how Jerusalem doesn’t need walls and gates to keep people out. How we need to keep Jerusalem clean and free from pollution.

All the warnings about the coming destruction of Jerusalem and the temple would’ve gone largely ignored. There would be no call for conversion or baptism, because “God wills the plurality of all religions”.
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The good news is, the worse things get, the closer we are to Jesus coming. Man will never “learn”, apparently, that we NEED God - they only dig in deeper, fortify their idolatry of self, and seek to destroy any who are not with them.
 
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way.

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280
 
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Crusader13 said:
The reason He ate with the sinners and tax collectors, was because they needed Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. Without it they would perish. The majority of what I hear today, is telling me that Jesus ate with them to tell them they weren’t sinners and they didn’t need to repent, convert or be baptized.
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There is a narrative that says Jesus only was friends with the sinners and tax collectors in order to convert. The problem with this is that it is not in the bible. I do not see how he would have caused such scandal if he was just a door to door preacher. Pope Francis is closer to the mark on this.

The rest of the post seems to be a strawman, under things no one is saying.
 
pnewton said:
The problem with this is that it is not in the bible. I do not see how he would have caused such scandal if he was just a door to door preacher.
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Because the Pharisees weren’t interested in converting people, they didn’t care much for spiritual things as much as appearances.
pnewton said:
There is a narrative that says Jesus only was friends with the sinners and tax collectors in order to convert.
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Zacchaeus and Matthew were both tax collectors that were converted. As well as His conversation with the women at the well show that this wasn’t just some aimless course of action.
 
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fide said:
If the answer is Yes, without doubt or hesitation, then do as you see right. Jesus IS the Truth. If you seek Him, you are on the right road.
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That’s what I have been doing for some time now. Mainly I look for what is, rather than what supports what I want to be.
 
There are two types of will, active and permissive, for God. Pope Francis himself when asked later stated that the document referred to God’s PERMISSIVE will in this and not his ACTIVE will. Big difference. No need to be ‘corrected’ on your part. Permissive is by no means the same as actively ‘willing’ religious plurality.
 
whatistrue said:
That’s what I have been doing for some time now. Mainly I look for what is , rather than what supports what I want to be.
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Yes, that is the key. I must add that the self-knowledge needed to discern that difference - between reality, and my own self-interested “virtual reality” - requires more than honesty and sincerity about seeking “what is”. As Scripture points out in several places, many are “having eyes to see, but do not see,” and “ears to hear, but do not hear.” We must have what only God can give us; what we can do is seek it in truth, and beg for the grace to recognize it when it is there before us.
 
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Exactly! In all honesty I am more scandalised by the attitude of some catholics that think it is fine to bash the pope constantly on social media. It feels like they expect constant clarifications and that they examine everything he says under the microscope. I pray for the pope daily, he is a man carrying a very heavy load. I happen to be one of those people who think that pope Francis has done a lot of good, I love reading his sermons and I think that he has worked very hard to remind us that we are a church of Mercy.
 
stpurl said:
There are two types of will, active and permissive, for God.
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In “Milk food Theology,” God has permissive will, which means, our whims is our governor.
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In “Solid food Theology” God has Active/ Supernatural will. It means, God is at work in all the actions of His creatures and His call to eternal life coming TOTALLY from His decision and surpassing ALL power of human intellect and will.

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1 Cor.3:2; I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able.
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As we see above, there are two Theology, “Milk food Theology” for the novice Christians and “Solid food Theology” for the theologically educated Christians. – For novice Christians, until they grow up in theological knowledge, “Solid food Theology” is not palatable for them.

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EXAMPLES OF “Milk food Theology:”

CCC1743 God willed that man should be left in the hand of his own counsel (cf. Sir 15:14), so that he might of his own accord seek his creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him" ( GS 17 § 1).
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According to “Milk food Theology”, God is not our ruler, we are our own ruler because by our whims we are anytime able to override the will of God. So, we are our own god and naturally follows, we are responsible for our salvation or our damnation.

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EXAMPLES OF “Solid food Theology:” – In “Solid food Theology” God causes every act of His creatures. This is the key to understand our Catholic Theology.
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CCC 301 With creation, God does not abandon his creatures to themselves. He not only gives them being and existence, but also, and at every moment, upholds and sustains them in being, enables them to act and brings them to their final end. Recognizing this utter dependence with respect to the Creator is a source of wisdom and freedom, of joy and confidence. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.
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CCC 308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes:
"For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Far from diminishing the creature’s dignity, this truth enhances it. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.
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CCC 307 God thus enables men to be intelligent and free, causes in order to complete the work of creation, … Though often unconscious collaborators with God’s will, they can also enter deliberately into the divine plan. They then fully become “God’s fellow workers” and co-workers for his kingdom. – Exact opposite of CCC 1743.

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Because God works in us He causes all our actions, we all freely do what we want to do and we don’t even realize, we are as His builders, freely cooperating with His graces and working on to complete His creation
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As we see @utpurl, total contradictions between the “Milk food Theology” of CCC 1743 and between the “Solid food Theology” of CCC 301, CCC 307, CCC 308, etc.
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The two Theology is in total contradiction with each other.
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Continue
 
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