Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?

[fix]

But, please, relate this to the priesthood. Are you saying that a gay man can not be a priest because he is not sacrificing heterosexual marriage?

No, but he cannot per the Church discipline. My point is why are we even comparing such items when they are not equal items?

The Left is salivating with rapaciousness over any glimmer that the Pontiff will finally show that “gay” behavior, or worldly feminism, or some other sin finally A-OK.

 

[maklavan]

The pope is trying to eliminate hate groups. We are all sinners, and it I’d his job not to judge.
He did not condone this lifestyle, just reminded us that we are all sinners, and if God forgives us we are not God. God is the ultimate judge.

This is one of the few sensible comments on this thread. Let common sense prevail!

 

[Prodigal_Son]

It is a huge effort, but without the immolation of the Good, it is not a sacrifice.

OK, you’re contradicting yourself, since earlier you said, “In the case of a homosexual priest, there is no Natural Good given up in choosing to be celibate, there is not the level of sacrifice that is entailed with the heterosexual priest.”

So you said there is a sacrifice, but not the same level of sacrifice. But now you say there isn’t a sacrifice. Which one?

Would it have really mattered if a Jew offered up his garbage at Passover time, instead of an unblemished lamb? Would that have been a true archetype of the Passion of the Cross?

Would it matter if there was difficulty in bringing the garbage to the altar? It is no sacrifice as there is no loss. All that was offered was that which should have been discarded anyway.

Do you think that a gay person is giving up garbage? Pure garbage? They are (a) giving up the chance at lifelong companionship and romance and (b) giving up sexual pleasure, which is really good, even if the means of achieving it is corrupted. This is a tremendous sacrifice.

Homosexuality is a **perversion **of the good. No one is attracted to it because of the evil they see in it, but rather because of the good they are trying to pursue.

I do not say that fornication is garbage; I have experienced it, and it is clearly a perverted good. If someone gives up fornication, it is a real sacrifice.

I agree that “all that was offered was that which should have been discarded anyway.” But God takes our petty offerings and makes them glorious.

 

[Aletheian]

It would be worth noting that, in Spanish, the verb juzgar can be used to mean both “to judge” and “to think ill of someone or something” (e.g., no lo juzges, “do not think ill of him”). His Holiness may have referred to the latter meaning.

 

[njlisa]

No, but he cannot per the Church discipline. My point is why are we even comparing such items when they are not equal items?

The Left is salivating with rapaciousness over any glimmer that the Pontiff will finally show that “gay” behavior, or worldly feminism, or some other sin finally A-OK.

I think his wording that “homosexuality is not the problem” is a far cry from calling same-sex attraction “objectively disordered.” CCC 2358

The Holy Father’s phrasing gives more hope, I think, to those with SSA.

 

[clem456]

Kinda hard not to gather posts when the topic is so central to our time and culture. The problem is do we see it as a problem at all or do we minimize it? The posters here are much different than the average person in the country. They mostly take their faith seriously and do not view it as some ideal that cannot be grasped.

Heterosexuals having been doing more harm to the family and virtues than homosexuals for centuries.

A multitude of sin is right there in front of our eyes, but we latch on to that which repulses us. It repulses us rightly so, but the question is why are we not also repulsed by adultery, fornication, and pornography, masturbation etc…We are not. Let’s admit that we as Christians are not as quick or strong in our condemnation of disordered heterosexual behaviors as we are homosexual.

 

[njlisa]

It would be worth noting that, in Spanish, the verb juzgar can be used to mean both “to judge” and “to think ill of someone or something” (e.g., no lo juzges, “do not think ill of him”). His Holiness may have referred to the latter meaning.

For the most part, he was speaking Italian.

 

[simpleas]

youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCPEjnKuco&list=HL1375125116

This is the video i have seen, think its defo his own words. Hope it helps until an actual vatican press release is done.
mentions the vatican bank and women priest’s too

 

[livingwordunity]

I think his wording that “homosexuality is not the problem” is a far cry from calling same-sex attraction “objectively disordered.” CCC 2358

The Holy Father’s phrasing gives more hope, I think, to those with SSA.

He did not contradict what’s in the Catechism. The quote of what he said, which is probably not all of what he said, is like the part in the Catechism that says, “they must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.” CCC, 2358

He also made a comment that he was against “gay” lobbying. Don’t read into it what he did not say. But even if he were to totally renounce all of the teachings of the Catholic Church while speaking off the cuff it would not count as anything binding. This is one big false alarm. But I guess the media just wants to make some money off of sensationalism.

 

[njlisa]

youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCPEjnKuco&list=HL1375125116

This is the video i have seen, think its defo his own words. Hope it helps until an actual vatican press release is done.
mentions the vatican bank and women priest’s too

Everyone should watch this video to get the real scoop. It will end all speculation and media spin.

 

[njlisa]

He did not contradict what’s in the Catechism. The quote of what he said, which is probably not all of what he said, is like the part in the Catechism that says, “they must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided.” CCC, 2358

He also made a comment that he was against “gay” lobbying. Don’t read into it what he did not say. But even if he were to totally renounce all of the teachings of the Catholic Church while speaking off the cuff it would not count as anything binding. This is one big false alarm. But I guess the media just wants to make some money off of sensationalism.

Watch this video. It completely substantiates what you have been saying. You deserve mega points for being spot on. Thanks to simpleas for originally posting this link.

:bowdown2:

 

[Elizabeth502]

I have no quarrel with Colin Donovan, but his word is not Gospel. I think he is a sharp fellow and on the mark with much of what he says. But I think going through the “gradation” of sin is diving down a rabbit’s hole. Fair enough that the acts of fornication are not sinful in a vacuum as they are good within a marriage, but that doesn’t make homosexual acts ipso facto “more wrong.”

No, I’m sorry. You are incorrect. His training in moral theology is accurate. It also coincides with similar training some of us were fortunate enough to receive from similarly well-trained priests and orthodox members of religious orders . Donovan’s statements on moral theology not his private opinions but rather theological principles.
No one is obsessing . Two posters, including yourself , have been corrected on the theology

 

[livingwordunity]

Watch this video. It completely substantiates what you have been saying. You deserve mega points for being spot on. Thanks to simpleas for originally posting this link.

:bowdown2:

No thanks. For the reasons I gave, I care next to nothing what he says off the cuff.

 

[njlisa]

No thanks. For the reasons I gave, I care next to nothing what he says off the cuff.

Well, he did cite the Catechism in his explanation. The media gave a truncated, misleading version. I just want to give you snaps for being right.

 

[RKO]

If you consider opinion an “unsolicited passage of judgment” you would have to include yourself in the ones who do it wouldn’t you?

didn’t I just do that very thing? Take another look:

Originally Posted by RKO
No. Is there no unsolicited passage of judgment on CAF? Have I mis-read that for these past several years? I willingly admit my own guilt on this. But perhaps i am the only one…

 

[KrazyKat]

Watch this video. It completely substantiates what you have been saying. You deserve mega points for being spot on. Thanks to simpleas for originally posting this link.

:bowdown2:

Great video, the Pope owes no one an explanation, this is as clear as can be !

 

[njlisa]

Great video, the Pope owes no one an explanation, this is as clear as can be !

The original credit should go to simpleas.

 

[KrazyKat]

didn’t I just do that very thing? Take another look:

Originally Posted by RKO
No. Is there no unsolicited passage of judgment on CAF? Have I mis-read that for these past several years? I willingly admit my own guilt on this. But perhaps i am the only one…

Thought your response was clear the first time !

 

[njlisa]

youtube.com/watch?v=ZDCPEjnKuco&list=HL1375125116

This is the video i have seen, think its defo his own words. Hope it helps until an actual vatican press release is done.
mentions the vatican bank and women priest’s too

FYI, I have reposted your video link. Many thanks for finding it in the first place.

:bowdown2:

 

[_Abyssinia]

What Pope Francis really said about gays – and no, it’s not new

Pope Francis doesn’t do interviews. Or at least that’s what we thought. He said that about himself just one week ago on the way to Rio de Janeiro for World Youth Day.

Then World Youth Day happened. And it happened in a big way.

According to official reports from City Hall, 3.2 million young people gathered on Copacabana Beach to see him, pray with him, and hear his proposal about the meaning of life.

The Bible and the Catholic Church have never taught that it is a “sin” to be homosexual.

His closing message to them was simple: Go back to your homes, and serve others without fear.

Hours later, perhaps taking to heart his own closing message about fearless service, Pope Francis offered an 80 minute, unscripted question-and-answer session with the international press core.

In its entirely, the press conference on the pope’s plane traveling from Brazil back to the Vatican was fascinating. (For more, please look at my Twitter reports.)

But, unfortunately, if you were reading the headlines from some media outlets, you would have learned just one thing. As the Huffington Post put it: “Breakthrough: Pope OK with Gays.”

This is the worst coverage of a religious story I have seen to date.

Let’s begin with the fact that the pope has always been “OK” with homosexuals. In fact, by the demands of his own religion he is required to be much more than just “OK.” The Christian faith teaches that every person is endowed by God with an inviolable dignity and therefore deserves our unconditional respect and love.

A section of an Associated Press report also got the story very wrong. Summarizing the pope’s comments on homosexuals in the priesthood, the AP reported: “Francis was much more conciliatory [than Pope Benedict], saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.”

Pope Francis didn’t say that, and the report is wrong on so many levels.

First of all, it suggests that being gay itself, is a sin. What Pope Francis really said, in response to a reporter’s question about homosexual priests who are living a celibate life was this: “If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?”

Pope Francis simply and compassionately reiterated Biblical teaching. The Bible and the Catholic Church have never taught that it is a “sin” to be homosexual. They teach it is a sin to have homosexual sex because it goes against the laws of God’s nature, specifically his plan for human sexuality.

When Pope Francis says “who am I to judge” he is saying—and I think we need to hear more of this from religious leaders—that active homosexuals deserve the same kindness, love, and mercy that all of us sinners would hope to receive from God and from others.

We don’t make judgments about anyone’s personal worth—God has already done that when he created us out of love.

I would hope next time Pope Francis offers to meet with the press, they would take to heart his message about fearless service and report to their readers what he actually said, rather than what they wish they had heard.

Father Jonathan Morris is a Fox News contributor and program director of “The Catholic Channel” on SiriusXM radio, Channel 129. He is author of "God Wants You Happy: From Self-Help to God’s Help" and “The Promise: God’s Purpose and Plan for When Life Hurts.” For more visitwww.FatherJonathan.com. Follow him on Twitter (@fatherjonathan) and visit his Facebook page: www.facebook.com/fathermorris.