Pope Francis: Who am I to judge gay people?

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I’ve read on this forum that God judges souls & we can judge actions, courts do it everyday. parents & teachers do with children & families against each-other.

Jesus told the woman " go and sin no more " He didn’t condemn her, he corrected her, that’s what Pope Francis is saying, he isn’t condoning sinners, but neither is he casting stones…
 
None of the articles on these statements that I have read, including such liberal bastions as the BBC and MSNBC, have quoted the pope as saying anything contradictory to well-established church teaching. The MSNBC article even correctly paraphrased the CCC’s teaching on the sinfulness of homosexual acts vs. inclinations. The news story here is not what the pope said, but that he said it in a way that was WELCOMED by the liberal community. While some liberals will surely be disappointed when they realize that doctrinal change is not coming, many in the liberal community are far more upset about what they perceive as a demeaning tone towards homosexuals and women than about specific Church doctrine. The pope’s tone is both charitable and uncompromising. What an example for all of us! Praise God for this example and for the media’s work to share this example with the world.
 
Elizabeth502 said:
No, I’m sorry. You are incorrect. His training in moral theology is accurate. It also coincides with similar training some of us were fortunate enough to receive from similarly well-trained priests and orthodox members of religious orders . Donovan’s statements on moral theology not his private opinions but rather theological principles.
No one is obsessing . Two posters, including yourself , have been corrected on the theology
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It is obsession. It is self evident. It is way out of proportion to the reality of sin in the world. There are more heterosexual human beings, thank God. But heterosexuals, due to our numbers, harm chastity and the general human condition more than homosexuals.

Really, the Pope’s word’s are enough here. He felt the need to pastorally guide us as he did, and put homosexuality into the proper Catholic perspective. Why do we feel the need to remind people “but but but… homosexuals are still committing disordered acts!”…
no kidding…:rolleyes:

And if this line is going to continue, could we post some actual theology detailing the “more mortal” nature of homosexual acts comparative to disordered heterosexual acts? Please?
 
Prodigal_Son said:
You seem to confuse living in the light with living in electric lighting. I do not think “living in the light” means accepting sin as acceptable – but that is what the gay movement does. It says that these things aren’t sins.

That’s a far cry from admitting, “This is a sin, and I desire this sin, and I want to change.” How do straight married men battle pornography and adultery? By saying to each other, “This is a sin, and I desire this sin, and I want to change.” But same-sex attracted people in the Church today are often encouraged NEVER to talk about their attractions except in confession. How exactly is that supposed to let healing light into their lives?

I have personal experience. I deal with SSA, and I have found that the more I discuss it with other people I can trust, the easier it is for me to resist sin.
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You said you think one reason men who have sex with men ‘hook up’ more often is the hiddenness of homosexuality. I disagreed and still disagree.

How best to help those with an inclination towards this sin is a different issue. Talking about struggles with others is often helpful. Then again shame can also be helpful. It could be in our modern culture we talk too openly about some problems and have too little shame. And I say that as someone who has plenty of shame for my own problems.
 
njlisa said:
Watch this video. It completely substantiates what you have been saying. You deserve mega points for being spot on. Thanks to simpleas for originally posting this link.

:bowdown2:
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Thank you for that, it certainly makes it a lot clearer. I don’t know how he does it though, that trip to Brazil was hectic and then, no rest, and being interviewed by the ‘wolves’ on the way home! Phew!
 
ThinkTwice said:
** According to the Wall Street Journal, the Pope’s comments about homosexuality came in the context of a question about gay priests.**
huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/pope-francis-gays_n_3669635.html

If the catholic church is accepting Gay priest but not heterosexual priest they are becoming a joke. I know that’s not the case in public but in private its appearing that way.

As far as just gay acts the bible to me just saying its a abomination to have such fleshy acts and then still the mind and pray.Its just not the way to the kingdom of God but we all have sins and most grow out of the abundance of sex.
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The Church is not accepting men to enter seminaries who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

Peace,
Ed
 
When I read this headline and others in mainstream media today, I immediately assumed there would be those on CAF who would rationalize hate-filled condemnations of gays and lesbians via the Pope’s words. And surprise! I was right. Now I only have to wait for Jimmy Akin’s “7 Things to Know About What Pope Francis Said About Gays” article to completely spin the Pope’s comments in the right direction. Oh, wait! It’s already been published. I’m not surprised that people here at CAF struggle with the Church’s position on homosexuality – we’re not supposed to condemn them (calling them “demonic” and such, which I literally just read in another current thread) but we’re supposed to condemn their actions. Of course this presents problems. Yet the most obvious difference between some posts here and the Pope’s words is the inherent Christlike attitude displayed by Francis that’s often largely absent from those who complain that “there are too many “homosexualists” today! Why can’t gays and lesbians go back to living under a rock somewhere so I can pretend they don’t exist!” All of us – those who are adherent Catholics regarding this topic and those who aren’t – would be wise to take our cues from the Pope without forcing him to meet our own personal agendas. He quoted the Catechism – clearly, he’s taking what is the actual Catholic position on the issue. And yet he is not focused on condemnation. God bless Pope Francis!
 
clem456 said:
A multitude of sin is right there in front of our eyes, but we latch on to that which repulses us. It repulses us rightly so, but the question is why are we not also repulsed by adultery, fornication, and pornography, masturbation etc…We are not. Let’s admit that we as Christians are not as quick or strong in our condemnation of disordered heterosexual behaviors as we are homosexual.
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I think pornography and masturbation have been discussed and condemned more than any other sin on this forum. Homosexuality is a relatively new topic on this forum.

But again, you just can’t liken one sin to another. For instance, the problem with fornication is that the encounter is meant for married couples and not that the act is bad. But what gays do is not just immoral but also repugnant by its very nature. The disgust affects other people. You just can’t compare it with any kind of sin.
 
pepipop said:
Thank you for that, it certainly makes it a lot clearer. I don’t know how he does it though, that trip to Brazil was hectic and then, no rest, and being interviewed by the ‘wolves’ on the way home! Phew!
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Yes, and he’s taking the wolves on, head on …
 
I don’t understand why he used the term “gay” people, rather than “SSA” people. To me “gay” implies men in the homosexual lifestyle, committine homosexual acts, rather than men who are attracted to other men, but not committing homosexual acts.

It seems misleading.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I don’t understand why he used the term “gay” people, rather than “SSA” people. To me “gay” implies men in the homosexual lifestyle, committine homosexual acts, rather than men who are attracted to other men, but not committing homosexual acts.

It seems misleading.
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English isn’t his first language…
 
njlisa said:
He was also speaking in Italian. So, those of us who aren’t fluent in Italian don’t really know what the exact connotation is. 🙂
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I don’t see how it could be so different from English.
 
njlisa said:
I think his wording that “homosexuality is not the problem” is a far cry from calling same-sex attraction “objectively disordered.” CCC 2358

The Holy Father’s phrasing gives more hope, I think, to those with SSA.
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The inclination is disordered and the Pope teaches that and always will. That is not uncharitable it is true no matter how many deny it.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Many use the word “gay” to mean “homosexual” or someone who has SSA…the words are interchangeable to many people.
Only on this forum have I ever heard people differentiating between the terms in the way you describe here.

.
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Well the Pope is Catholic for heaven sakes! There is a clear discrimination in the Catholic catechism between homosexual acts and SSA persons. If anyone should know that - he should!!
 
Pope Francis…even as someone who is not a practicing Catholic, I can’t express how much respect I have for him. Through humility, christian charity, and selflessness…he is erasing much of the negative stigma that the Catholic Church has gained in secular and less conservative religious circles. God bless this man. He is truly deserving of being the head of your church.
 
clem456 said:
Heterosexuals having been doing more harm to the family and virtues than homosexuals for centuries.

A multitude of sin is right there in front of our eyes, but we latch on to that which repulses us. It repulses us rightly so, but the question is why are we not also repulsed by adultery, fornication, and pornography, masturbation etc…We are not. Let’s admit that we as Christians are not as quick or strong in our condemnation of disordered heterosexual behaviors as we are homosexual.
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I do not buy that argument. The world no longer is repulsed by evil. The same people who embrace porn, adultery and all the rest embrace homosexuality as normal.

The acceptance of this evil is not the start but the end. We have gone over the cliff. The answer is not to deny the obvious or make martyrs out of those who would invert society. This is not about being personally repulsed by eternally wrong behavior it is about the few last nails in the coffin and how that will affect civilization in particular the family. No small matter.
 
Teen4Christ said:
Pope Francis…even as someone who is not a practicing Catholic, I can’t express how much respect I have for him. Through humility, christian charity, and selflessness…he is erasing much of the negative stigma that the Catholic Church has gained in secular and less conservative religious circles. God bless this man. He is truly deserving of being the head of your church.
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Great then you accept that he teaches homosexual attraction is disordered.
 
fix said:
The inclination is disordered and the Pope teaches that and always will. That is not uncharitable it is true no matter how many deny it.
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Unless one is on the wrong side of that pronouncement, it’s impossible to know how it feels. Being called brothers and sisters does instill more hope, I’m thinking. You may think that hope is not warranted.
 
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