Pope Francis You cant dialogue with the devil

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VATICAN CITY — Prayer and humble reliance on the Lord is the strongest weapon against temptation, Pope Francis said this morning, adding that when it comes to spiritual warfare, you can’t dialogue with the devil.

Addressing clergy and faithful in his homily at morning Mass, in the chapel of his residence at Santa Marta, the pope called the devil a specialist in deception, who “promises you everything and leaves you naked.”

In the weakness of temptation which we all experience, he said, the key is not to “hide ourselves” from the Lord, but to seek his grace when we are tested and seek his forgiveness should we fall.

The devil uses dialogue to deceive

Temptations lead us to hide ourselves from the Lord, so that we remain with our “fault,” our “sin,” our “corruption.” Commenting on the first Reading from the Book of Genesis, Pope Francis focused on the temptation of Adam and Eve, and then considered that of Jesus in the desert.

In the Genesis account, the devil appears in the form of a serpent: he is “attractive,” and with his cunning he seeks “to deceive.” In this he is a specialist, he is “the father of lies,” “a liar.” So he knows how to deceive and how to “cheat” people. This is what he did with Eve: he made her “feel good,” the Pope explained, and so he began to dialogue with her; and, step by step, Satan led her where he wanted.

With Jesus it is different; it ended badly for the devil, the Pope said. “He tries to dialogue” with Christ, because when the devil deceives a person he does so with dialogue.” He attempts to deceive Him, but Jesus does not give in. Then the devil is revealed for who he is. Jesus answers him, not with His own words, but with the Word of God, because “you can’t dialogue with the devil”; you’ll end up, like Adam and Eve, “naked”:

“The devil is a bad paymaster, he doesn’t pay well. He is a cheat! He promises you everything and leaves you naked. Jesus, too, ended up naked, but on the Cross, through obedience to the Father: this is a different path. The serpent, the devil is cunning: you can’t dialogue with the devil. We all know what temptations are, we all know, because we all have them. So many temptations! Of vanity, pride, greed, avarice… so many!”

Corruption begins in small things

Today, the Pope said, there is a lot of talk of corruption; and for this, too, we should ask for the Lord’s help:

“There are so many corrupt people, corrupt ‘big fish’ in the world, whose lives we read about in the papers. Perhaps they began with a small thing, I don’t know, maybe not adjusting the scales well. What was a kilo… no, let’s make it 900 grams, but that will seem like a kilo. Corruption begins in small things like this, with dialogue: ‘No, it’s not true that this fruit will harm you. Eat it, it’s good! It’s a little thing, no one will notice. Do it! Do it!’ And little by little, little by little, you fall into sin, you fall into corruption.”

If you want to be a winner, never hide from the Lord

The Church teaches this, the Pope said, so that we will not be deceived – not to say foolish – so that when we are tempted we have our “eyes open” and know to ask the Lord for help, “because we can’t do it on our own.” Adam and Eve hid themselves from the Lord; on the contrary, it takes the grace of Jesus in order to “turn and seek forgiveness”:

“In temptation, you don’t dialogue, you pray: ‘Help me, Lord, I am weak. I don’t want to hide from you.’ This is courage, this is winning. When you start to dialogue, you end up overcome, defeated. May the Lord give us that grace, and accompany us in this courage. And if we are deceived because of our weakness in temptation, may He grant us the courage to get up and go forward. It’s for this that Jesus came, for this.”
 
I dont see why trying to ‘dialogue’ with the devil couldnt be beneficial, at least to someone who knows what they are doing, I mean, the ‘fall’ would have effected satan in a negative way too, why not try to use that somehow, kind of like using his own tools to work against him?
 
I dont see why trying to ‘dialogue’ with the devil couldnt be beneficial, at least to someone who knows what they are doing, I mean, the ‘fall’ would have effected satan in a negative way too, why not try to use that somehow, kind of like using his own tools to work against him?
They don’t call him the Father of Lies for nothing. Try dialoging with him and you’ll probably have a very good time and a lot of free Sunday mornings but you’ll get nothing of value out of the dialogue and the devil wants nothing from you so it’ll be a one sided conversation (probably just talking to yourself).
 
I dont see why trying to ‘dialogue’ with the devil couldnt be beneficial, at least to someone who knows what they are doing, I mean, the ‘fall’ would have effected satan in a negative way too, why not try to use that somehow, kind of like using his own tools to work against him?
Picture a five-year-old trying to fistfight Arnold Schwarzenegger. That’s why we don’t ‘dialogue’ with the Devil.

As for using the Devil’s own tools: lust, deceit, greed, lies, sloth, envy, pride, malice. One does not counter an arsonist by setting fire to his targets.
 
As for using the Devil’s own tools: lust, deceit, greed, lies, sloth, envy, pride, malice. One does not counter an arsonist by setting fire to his targets.
No, but Ive seen greed used in order to catch a thief or set a trap, also seen lust being used to set a trap in order to catch people.

Using someones vices against them is nothing new.

Satan fell just like we did, why should he be exempt?
 
No, but Ive seen greed used in order to catch a thief or set a trap, also seen lust being used to set a trap in order to catch people.

Using someones vices against them is nothing new.

Satan fell just like we did, why should he be exempt?
Picture a five-year-old trying to fistfight Arnold Schwarzenegger.
 
No, but Ive seen greed used in order to catch a thief or set a trap, also seen lust being used to set a trap in order to catch people.

Using someones vices against them is nothing new.

Satan fell just like we did, why should he be exempt?
Wouldnt that be entrapment?
 
Picture a five-year-old trying to fistfight Arnold Schwarzenegger. That’s why we don’t ‘dialogue’ with the Devil.
Good comparison!
No, but Ive seen greed used in order to catch a thief or set a trap, also seen lust being used to set a trap in order to catch people.

Using someones vices against them is nothing new.

Satan fell just like we did, why should he be exempt?
Sure, Satan and his followers fell, and their intellects were darkened. But, remember that the angelic nature is different from ours, and even after their fall, their intellects were/are many times as powerful as ours.

How are we going to trap a demon? There’s nothing to trap. At his fall, his will was set forever against God, and he became pure malice. He can`t be tempted by anything because his will is unchangeable.

We’re the poor beggars whose wills can be played with. And a creature of pure malice is a pro. And don’t forget the powerful intellect to back up the hatred.
For any human being to take on a fallen angel would be the height of pride, presumption, idiocy ad nauseum, with only one outcome.
 
No, but Ive seen greed used in order to catch a thief or set a trap, also seen lust being used to set a trap in order to catch people.

Using someones vices against them is nothing new.

Satan fell just like we did, why should he be exempt?
Oddly, by you going against the devil, directly, it is YOU who might have fallen for his traps using one of YOUR sins: pride! What do humans know of “powers” and “principalities” and spiritual beings to enable them take on them directly? If it were not for the incarnation, the human race was enslaved to these very beings.

Without God’s help, you don’t stand a chance. The devil is an angel and not a human. By nature, he is far superior in intellect and strength. He is ancient.

Angels fight angels. Pray to St. Michael. And your guardian angel. Let them do it. Or saints. Or specially trained representatives of the church. There is a reason the church forbids just anyone willynillily engaging in exorcism.

As for us, we are told clearly that the way to fight the devil is to rely on the ultimate power: the creator. Prayer. Jesus’ name. On the Blessed Virgin. Humility turns out to be the most effective way of defeating the devil afterall, the most effective way of defeating the prideful one.
 
No, but Ive seen greed used in order to catch a thief or set a trap, also seen lust being used to set a trap in order to catch people.

Using someones vices against them is nothing new.

Satan fell just like we did, why should he be exempt?
Seriously? He was the brightest of angels, the light-bearer, and is of inestimable age. He is pure, unadulterated malevolence on a scale that is only surpassed in power by the love of God.

And you think you can trick him using 40 years of cunning, or use girlish figure and eye lashes to seduce him?
 
Using someones vices against them is nothing new.

Satan fell just like we did, why should he be exempt?
And another thing: Satan did NOT “fall just like we did”. Nope! The devil had no tempter. Nobody tricked him or lied to him or influenced him in any way. The fall of the angels was a very different thing than the fall of Adam and Eve. There is a reason there was no redemption for them when for Adam and Eve the redeemer was immediately promised, right upon the judgment that followed the fall.

The angels are pure spirits. Their fall was an act of perfectly free and complete will. They had no snake. No hesitation. No second thoughts. No regrets
No repentance. It was a pure choice. One that turned them completely evil, in a manner not possible for a human to grasp. So, besides the superior angelic nature that the devils possess, there is the fact that these are not beings that like humans are somehow confused about what they want, turning this way and that, as we do, and being easily tempted. They also don’t have a material body that suffers lust, gluttony or greed for money, property, social recognition or worldly political power. So what would you use to bait them? You can’t assume that the devil cares for the same things you do. So, repeating what I and others have said above, attempting what you suggest would be the opposite of wisdom.

Think of the depiction of Sauron in the Lord of the Rings. That is a human artistic depiction of a being very much like what we call Satan. You are suggesting that Frodo and Sam can face him directly themselves, rather than rely on Gandalf or the Elves or the Valar:eek::D:p
 
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