Pope: God sent his son to show mercy to sinners, not punish them

[JimR-OCDS]

JosieN

If the merits of the sacrifice on the cross are not needed for the grace of mercy to be given to us, then why would God send His Son into the world to die on the cross for us?

Because without Christ, we would not have salvation.

The point however, is that God in His mercy, became man in Jesus Christ, suffered and died for our salvation, while we were still unrepentant sinners.

Jesus Christ came to die on the cross for our sins and if we repent and are forgiven, then His mercy is given to us. Isn’t that the Christian belief?

It is, but God’s mercy is beyond our understanding.

The Church teaches that those who through no fault of their own, have not heard the Gospel message, may be saved.

And the culpability for not hearing, can be many things including the offenses of Christians which turns non-believers away.

Jim

 

[irishpatrick]

Then why does God continue to reveal himself to us ?

Believe it or not, we know more today than they knew in the early centuries of the Church.

The Church evolves spiritually and continues to do so.

Jim

There is nothing revealed in private revelations that is different that what is already in the deposit of faith. The problem is a great many people do not learn the faith in depth, so private revelations happen to nudge us toward the truth.

This is proved out by the fact the Church states we do not have to accept or believe private revelations.

Truth does not evolve. We come to better knowledge or understanding of truth, yet that truth has always been there–it is not evolving.

 

[irishpatrick]

JosieN

Because without Christ, we would not have salvation.

The point however, is that God in His mercy, became man in Jesus Christ, suffered and died for our salvation, while we were still unrepentant sinners.

It is, but God’s mercy is beyond our understanding.

The Church teaches that those who through no fault of their own, have not heard the Gospel message, may be saved.

And the culpability for not hearing, can be many things including the offenses of Christians which turns non-believers away.

Jim

Tread carefully here because we must NOT get to an understanding in which we imply that we do not need to repent because we are unable to understand.

God knows us better than we know ourselves, and He knows what we can understand, and what we cannot. If God tells us we must repent, it is true because God said it, and it makes no difference (to that truth) if we understand.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

There is nothing revealed in private revelations that is different that what is already in the deposit of faith. The problem is a great many people do not learn the faith in depth, so private revelations happen to nudge us toward the truth.

This is proved out by the fact the Church states we do not have to accept or believe private revelations.

Truth does not evolve. We come to better knowledge or understanding of truth, yet that truth has always been there–it is not evolving.

Remember, the Church at one time thought that burning heretics and witches was in the name of truth.

The dogma of the Immaculate Conception is a revealed truth not originally in the deposits of faith. If not for the Blessed Mother’s confirmation of the dogma to St Bernadette, we probably would not have heard much about it, because when the Pope declared the dogma, it nearly caused a schism.

Agreed, truth does not evolve, but it is revealed and it’s revealed in deeper ways which helps us to understand better.

Contemplation, was not even a word used by St Teresa of Avila or St John of the Cross, but its is now the understood term of interior prayer which was revealed to them and of which they taught. We now have their writings, which at one time, Catholics would’ve been discouraged from reading.

Also, we lay people would hardly have heard about contemplative prayer, if not for Pope Paul VI, calling the spiritual leaders of the Church to look at what was drawing young Catholics away to Eastern Religions. When they saw what the spiritual masters of the East were teaching, Catholic leaders knew immediately that the rich tradition of contemplative prayer, was already in the Catholic Church going back to the forth century. However, it stopped being taught outside of monasteries, because the Church had stopped evolving spiritually.

Today we have great spiritual teachers who have written in contemporary language, teaching us about contemplative prayer. Yet, many rigid Catholics reject it.

Jim

 

[irishpatrick]

Remember, the Church at one time thought that burning heretics and witches was in the name of truth.

The dogma of the Immaculate Conception is a revealed truth not originally in the deposits of faith. If not for the Blessed Mother’s confirmation of the dogma to St Bernadette, we probably would not have heard much about it, because when the Pope declared the dogma, it nearly caused a schism.

Agreed, truth does not evolve, but it is revealed and it’s revealed in deeper ways which helps us to understand better.

Contemplation, was not even a word used by St Teresa of Avila or St John of the Cross, but its is now the understood term of interior prayer which was revealed to them and of which they taught. We now have their writings, which at one time, Catholics would’ve been discouraged from reading.

Also, we lay people would hardly have heard about contemplative prayer, if not for Pope Paul VI, calling the spiritual leaders of the Church to look at what was drawing young Catholics away to Eastern Religions. When they saw what the spiritual masters of the East were teaching, Catholic leaders knew immediately that the rich tradition of contemplative prayer, was already in the Catholic Church going back to the forth century. However, it stopped being taught outside of monasteries, because the Church had stopped evolving spiritually.

Today we have great spiritual teachers who have written in contemporary language, teaching us about contemplative prayer. Yet, many rigid Catholics reject it.

Jim

You are merely confirming my statement–everything we need has already been revealed. For example, The Immaculate Conception is in public revelation–when the Angel Gabriel declared Mary to be full of Grace.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Tread carefully here because we must NOT get to an understanding in which we imply that we do not need to repent because we are unable to understand.

God knows us better than we know ourselves, and He knows what we can understand, and what we cannot. If God tells us we must repent, it is true because God said it, and it makes no difference (to that truth) if we understand.

Repentance in Greek Metanoia, is defined as a "change of mind.

Without faith, one can not repent.

Faith is a gift from God, which is His revelation to us, however that may happen.

Those who seek truth, although they have no knowledge of Jesus Christ, can still be saved because of God’s mercy.

Salvation was never intended as individualistic, but social, per Pope Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi.

So, we have the “revealed,” truth of salvation, but its not the complete truth which only God knows.

Jim

 

[irishpatrick]

Repentance in Greek Metanoia, is defined as a "change of mind.

Without faith, one can not repent.

Faith is a gift from God, which is His revelation to us, however that may happen.

Those who seek truth, although they have no knowledge of Jesus Christ, can still be saved because of God’s mercy.

Salvation was never intended as individualistic, but social, per Pope Benedict XVI, Spe Salvi.

So, we have the “revealed,” truth of salvation, but its not the complete truth which only God knows.

Jim

I have no argument with what you wrote here. I will say again (even considering your words) we have been given everything we need. Salvation is both an individual AND social
reality.