Pope Hailed for Praying toward Mecca Like Muslims

[GordonBOPS]

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Pope Benedict wound up a fence-mending visit to Turkey on Friday amid praise from the local press for visiting Istanbul’s Blue Mosque and praying toward Mecca “like Muslims”.The Pope, who sparked protests across the Muslim world with a speech two months ago seen as criticizing Islam, looked relaxed and pleased as he entered the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit for a mass at the end of the sensitive four-day trip.
His first visit to a mostly Muslim country, held under tight security for fear of protests by nationalists and Islamists, was highlighted by a series of conciliatory gestures culminating in a stop on Thursday afternoon in Istanbul’s famed Blue Mosque.

“The Pope’s dreaded visit was concluded with a wonderful surprise,” wrote daily Aksam on its front page.
“In Sultan Ahmet Mosque, he turned toward Mecca and prayed like Muslims,” popular daily Hurriyet said, using the building’s official name.

today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-12-01T120223Z_01_L28626797_RTRUKOC_0_US-POPE-TURKEY.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

I am trying to understand this from a Catholic perspective-lets discuss

 

[vern_humphrey]

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Pope Benedict wound up a fence-mending visit to Turkey on Friday amid praise from the local press for visiting Istanbul’s Blue Mosque and praying toward Mecca “like Muslims”.The Pope, who sparked protests across the Muslim world with a speech two months ago seen as criticizing Islam, looked relaxed and pleased as he entered the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit for a mass at the end of the sensitive four-day trip.
His first visit to a mostly Muslim country, held under tight security for fear of protests by nationalists and Islamists, was highlighted by a series of conciliatory gestures culminating in a stop on Thursday afternoon in Istanbul’s famed Blue Mosque.

“The Pope’s dreaded visit was concluded with a wonderful surprise,” wrote daily Aksam on its front page.
“In Sultan Ahmet Mosque, he turned toward Mecca and prayed like Muslims,” popular daily Hurriyet said, using the building’s official name.

today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-12-01T120223Z_01_L28626797_RTRUKOC_0_US-POPE-TURKEY.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

I am trying to understand this from a Catholic perspective-lets discuss

First of all, the headline should be a dead giveaway – Muslims don’t pray to Mecca. They face Mecca, but they pray to God (Allah in Arabic.) The article portrays this as something other than it really is – the Pope faced Mecca (and Jerusalem) to pray – but rest assured his prayers were Catholic, not Muslim prayers.

 

[Thekla]

First of all, the headline should be a dead giveaway – Muslims don’t pray to Mecca.

I’m not sure what you think the headline is giving away. They always shorten words in headlines. But they’ve apparently changed it to…
"Pope hailed for praying toward Mecca like Muslims"

It may not have significant to us, but it probably held significance to Muslims and that’s a good thing. I just love popes and we are so lucky to have them. They are seen by almost everyone in the world as uber-holy and the smallest thing they do has tremendous weight behind it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m not sure what you think the headline is giving away. They always shorten words in headlines. But they’ve apparently changed it to…
"Pope hailed for praying toward Mecca like Muslims"

Someone probably called them on it.

This reminds me of the hoopla on the (in)famous ossuary box, which was presented in the media as being inscribed “James the son of Joseph, brother of Jesus.” The agenda was quite clear there – because the inscription was in Aramaic, and the name would have been “Yeshua” and properly translated into English as “Joshua,” not the Greek “Jesus.”

It may not have significant to us, but it probably held significance to Muslims and that’s a good thing. I just love popes and we are so lucky to have them. They are seen by almost everyone in the world as uber-holy and the smallest thing they do has tremendous weight behind it.

Yet the media would portray them in the worst light possible – “praying to Mecca,” indeed.

 

[Kendy]

First of all, the headline should be a dead giveaway – Muslims don’t pray to Mecca. They face Mecca, but they pray to God (Allah in Arabic.) The article portrays this as something other than it really is – the Pope faced Mecca (and Jerusalem) to pray – but rest assured his prayers were Catholic, not Muslim prayers.

Well, I hate to criticize the pope, but I am disappointed that he did this . While it may ameliorate tensions with muslims, I don’t think it does much for the cause of evangelization. Plus, it certainly, alienates many of our protestant brothers and sisters.

I hate all this inter-faith stuff.

Kendy

 

[palmas85]

First of all, the headline should be a dead giveaway – Muslims don’t pray to Mecca. They face Mecca, but they pray to God (Allah in Arabic.) The article portrays this as something other than it really is – the Pope faced Mecca (and Jerusalem) to pray – but rest assured his prayers were Catholic, not Muslim prayers.

Nonetheless, what the Holy Father did in Muslim eyes, was display weakness and cowardice. Despite all the hoopla when he made his statements several montsh ago, the Muslim world saw him and respected him as being strong. The back pedaling by the Vatican and now this, shows them in their eyes that he and we are weak, Since he is the leader of the largest Christian denomination, it also probably showed them that he doesn’t even believe the the Catholic Churches teaching of being the true Church.

Remember, they believe they are the true Church. If he and by extension we, his followers actually believed that, why would he lower himself to pray with those who do not worship the same God?. For in their eyes, Allah is not the same God that we worship. We are in serious error.

We see it as beneficial and an olive branch. They see it weakness and probable surrender.

Sorry but that is really just the way it is…

 

[vern_humphrey]

Nonetheless, what the Holy Father did in Muslim eyes, was display weakness and cowardice. Despite all the hoopla when he made his statements several montsh ago, the Muslim world saw him and respected him as being strong. The back pedaling by the Vatican and now this, shows them in their eyes that he and we are weak, Since he is the leader of the largest Christian denomination, it also probably showed them that he doesn’t even believe the the Catholic Churches teaching of being the true Church.

Remember, they believe they are the true Church. If he and by extension we, his followers actually believed that, why would he lower himself to pray with those who do not worship the same God?. For in their eyes, Allah is not the same God that we worship. We are in serious error.

We see it as beneficial and an olive branch. They see it weakness and probable surrender.

Sorry but that is really just the way it is…

And we know all this to be true, how?

I suggest the Holy Father is the best judge of his own actions. And this news story, with its slanted headline, was aimed at creating dissention between Catholics and demeaning the Holy Father in the eyes of the Christian world.

 

[kencando]

I suggest the Holy Father is the best judge of his own actions.

The Pope is not infallable when it comes to his actions. I believe the Pope made a mistake quoting the Emperor about the muslims evil actions. I think we need to reach out to other faiths but one cannot undermine ones own. Jesus told us to beware of false prophets who would come after Him and it would seem that Mohammad was born after Jesus and proclamed himself a prophet. The church has taught one could attend a service of another faith but not participate in the ceremonies as that could give scandal to others. This may be one of the instances. The second Vatican Council has gone out of the way to try to include the Muslims claiming that the trinitarian God we believe in is just a shortfall of knowledge of the god Allah, but still the belief of one god. A Mercedes is a car but all cars are not Mercedes’. I think the same applies here. Allah doesn’t have a Son named Jesus or a Holy Spirit.

 

[tequilamac]

The Pope is not infallable when it comes to his actions. I believe the Pope made a mistake quoting the Emperor about the muslims evil actions. I think we need to reach out to other faiths but one cannot undermine ones own. Jesus told us to beware of false prophets who would come after Him and it would seem that Mohammad was born after Jesus and proclamed himself a prophet. The church has taught one could attend a service of another faith but not participate in the ceremonies as that could give scandal to others. This may be one of the instances. The second Vatican Council has gone out of the way to try to include the Muslims claiming that the trinitarian God we believe in is just a shortfall of knowledge of the god Allah, but still the belief of one god. A Mercedes is a car but all cars are not Mercedes’. I think the same applies here. Allah doesn’t have a Son named Jesus or a Holy Spirit.

Why are any of you expecting something in return from the Muslims? Someone said earlier in this thread “Would the Muslims pray facing the Eucharist?” The answer is if by praying facing the Eucharist meant that they were facing in the direction of Mecca, then yes, they would. but what bothers me here is you all are complaining that the Muslims don’t give tit for tat and don’t return the respect, and don’t have the right relationship with God. their Allah has no son etc.

When did Jesus tell you the Pope would only display charity if the Muslims displayed it back? didn’t Jesus say love without expecting a return? And yet, whenever any of our Popes do just that, the laity jumps all over them as if they are traitors. The Pope is not wrong, guys. You are. Your charity toward Muslims is conditional upon their returning the favor. And I do not believe that is what the Holy Mother has taught you to do.

 

[Kendy]

Why are any of you expecting something in return from the Muslims? Someone said earlier in this thread “Would the Muslims pray facing the Eucharist?” The answer is if by praying facing the Eucharist meant that they were facing in the direction of Mecca, then yes, they would. but what bothers me here is you all are complaining that the Muslims don’t give tit for tat and don’t return the respect, and don’t have the right relationship with God. their Allah has no son etc.

When did Jesus tell you the Pope would only display charity if the Muslims displayed it back? didn’t Jesus say love without expecting a return? And yet, whenever any of our Popes do just that, the laity jumps all over them as if they are traitors. The Pope is not wrong, guys. You are. Your charity toward Muslims is conditional upon their returning the favor. And I do not believe that is what the Holy Mother has taught you to do.

I don’t have a problem with showing charity to muslims. What concerns me is paying homage to another faith.

Kendy

 

[tequilamac]

I don’t have a problem with showing charity to muslims. What concerns me is paying homage to another faith.

Kendy

Oh my yes, that would be awful alright. I do not know what religion you follow, but Catholics believe the Pope is protected by the power of the Holy Spirit from committing blasphemy.

 

[Lurch104]

Oh my yes, that would be awful alright. I do not know what religion you follow, but Catholics believe the Pope is protected by the power of the Holy Spirit from committing blasphemy.

Could you cite a reference in the CCC attesting to that statement? You can’t, because it is FALSE. The Pope is only infallible when speaking “Ex Cathedra”. He has to acknowledge that he is making an infallible statement. His actions in Turkey were not protected.

 

[Kendy]

Oh my yes, that would be awful alright. I do not know what religion you follow, but Catholics believe the Pope is protected by the power of the Holy Spirit from committing blasphemy.

Are you sure? I thought the pope could sin, including commit blaspheme?

 

[tequilamac]

Are you sure? I thought the pope could sin, including commit blaspheme?

Yes, completely sure. When he is acting as Pope he is completely protected by the Holy Spirit. That is why he never gives speeches full of obscenities like George Bush.
Of course, what slips through his lips when he stubs his toe on the way to the bathroom in the middle of the night- well no he is not protected from his personal sins. But that is none of our business-that is between him and his confessor.

 

[SORROWS]

Well, I hate to criticize the pope, but I am disappointed that he did this . While it may ameliorate tensions with muslims, I don’t think it does much for the cause of evangelization. Plus, it certainly, alienates many of our protestant brothers and sisters.

I hate all this inter-faith stuff.

Kendy

I am proud of Pope Benedict for his courage even to going to a country that is hostile. Just as I would expect a visitor to the Vatican to show respect for the Catholic Church (although not catholic), the Pope did right.

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.” Matthew 5:9

And what other protestant or other leader has the courage to do what our Pope has done? Pope Benedict is the Vicar of Christ and I support him. He acts with words and actions unlike other leaders.

 

[Melvin]

Oh my yes, that would be awful alright. I do not know what religion you follow, but Catholics believe the Pope is protected by the power of the Holy Spirit from committing blasphemy.

Not quite right. The Holy Father is protected from teaching error in faith and morals when speaking ex cathedra. He can sin as can any man, otherwise. CA has at least a couple of very good articles on this.

Peace be with you.

 

[palmas85]

And we know all this to be true, how?

I suggest the Holy Father is the best judge of his own actions. And this news story, with its slanted headline, was aimed at creating dissention between Catholics and demeaning the Holy Father in the eyes of the Christian world.

I suggest you read up a bit on Islam and see exactly how accomodating it is to other faiths and what they actually believe… While I truly think the Holy father is doing what he thinks best, he is sadly mistaken if he thinks that the overwhelming majority of Muslims will see this action as a good positive thing. To them it will show only weakness and lack of belief in our own faith. In my home country we/ve had ongoing problems and flat out war with Muslims for over 100 years. Believe me, what the western world thinks of as being accomodating and tolerant they see as sheer weakness and stupidity.

Don’t ever forget what the word Islam means, Submission. Submission to the will of Allah. There is no other way for them.

 

[puzzleannie]

Nonetheless, what the Holy Father did in Muslim eyes, was display weakness and cowardice.
. . .
We see it as beneficial and an olive branch. They see it weakness and probable surrender.

Sorry but that is really just the way it is…

fortunately for us the Pope acts according to Christian principles, not in order to appease Muslims or to make a political statement or to control spin or any other secular motivation.

 

[genotob]

fortunately for us the Pope acts according to Christian principles, not in order to appease Muslims or to make a political statement or to control spin or any other secular motivation.

Would a Muslim pray while facing the Holy Eucharist? of course not. It gives the appearance of accepting the Christian God. The Pope was wrong to pray while facing Mecca.It gives Muslims the appearance of Him accepting their God which is a false god.Their God denies the Trinity, denies Jesus is God, denies the Resurrection.Also according to news reports the Pope “did not make the sign of the cross” Why not? Was he afraid of offending the Muslims?DId jesus ever pray while facing a pagan idle? This was a sign of weakness from Pope Benedict

 

[Nohome]

Would a Muslim pray while facing the Holy Eucharist? of course not. It gives the appearance of accepting the Christian God.

While Muslims, Jew and Christians disagree on a lot, they all believe there is one God. In fact, Arab christians of the world call God “Allah”. Scholars in all faiths would not refer to the Christian God because they agree he is one.

The Pope was wrong to pray while facing Mecca.It gives Muslims the appearance of Him accepting their God which is a false god.

The Pope was right because he knows there is one God, we say it every week in Mass. The Muslims do not have a false God, they have a false Prophet.

Nohome