Pope Hailed for Praying toward Mecca Like Muslims

[Eireann]

Well, I hate to criticize the pope, but I am disappointed that he did this . While it may ameliorate tensions with muslims, I don’t think it does much for the cause of evangelization. Plus, it certainly, alienates many of our protestant brothers and sisters.

I hate all this inter-faith stuff.

Kendy

Me too, I can’t believe it he has changed his religion, please tell me the Pope is still a Catholic.

Is the Pope Catholic ?

 

[maggieodae]

Well, I hate to criticize the pope, but I am disappointed that he did this . While it may ameliorate tensions with muslims, I don’t think it does much for the cause of evangelization. Plus, it certainly, alienates many of our protestant brothers and sisters.

I hate all this inter-faith stuff.

Kendy

Well, don’t get too flapped. Before Vatican II, our altars always faced East. as in Jerusalem. So don’t think Pope Benedict doesn’t know where Jerusalem is. I am quite sure he does. The fact the media think it’s Mecca is no big deal. They don’t know up from down anyway.

Pope Benedict/ aka Cardinal Ratzinger and restoring “Facing East”

Meanwhile Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Vatican’s powerful doctrinal office, has written a new book in which he suggests that priests turn away from the people in order to face east during portions of the Mass. He also supported placing tabernacles in a central location in churches and endorsed a “renewed appreciation” of kneeling. All are customs associated with pre-Vatican II liturgical piety.

And then there is the fact that Islam, which came along 600 years after Christ, has always had elements of Christianity they claim as their own. They are the one’s imitating us as reguards to facing East…not the other way around.

 

[Eireann]

Nonetheless, what the Holy Father did in Muslim eyes, was display** weakness **and cowardice. Despite all the hoopla when he made his statements several months ago, the Muslim world saw him and respected him as being strong. The back pedaling by the Vatican and now this, shows them in their eyes that he and we are weak,

Weak indeed, heroic I’m afraid, he went to a country that called for his head, and if they had the chance would have taken him out.

You know what my worst fear was ? some of those guards shooting him, it has happened to other leaders, when their own have taken them out.

No it was a very brave thing to do in going to a country that had most of the people calling for his head, would you go ?

 

[Kendy]

I am proud of Pope Benedict for his courage even to going to a country that is hostile. Just as I would expect a visitor to the Vatican to show respect for the Catholic Church (although not catholic), the Pope did right.

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.” Matthew 5:9

And what other protestant or other leader has the courage to do what our Pope has done? Pope Benedict is the Vicar of Christ and I support him. He acts with words and actions unlike other leaders.

Well, in a world where people value “diversity” over conviction, I am not sure I see courage here. The least popular thing to do today is to suggest that your religion is more true than other people. Many protestants boldly confess that christianity is more true than other religion, and that takes a lot of courage today.

Kendy

 

[mark_a]

ISTANBUL (Reuters) - Pope Benedict wound up a fence-mending visit to Turkey on Friday amid praise from the local press for visiting Istanbul’s Blue Mosque and praying toward Mecca “like Muslims”.The Pope, who sparked protests across the Muslim world with a speech two months ago seen as criticizing Islam, looked relaxed and pleased as he entered the Cathedral of the Holy Spirit for a mass at the end of the sensitive four-day trip.
His first visit to a mostly Muslim country, held under tight security for fear of protests by nationalists and Islamists, was highlighted by a series of conciliatory gestures culminating in a stop on Thursday afternoon in Istanbul’s famed Blue Mosque.

“The Pope’s dreaded visit was concluded with a wonderful surprise,” wrote daily Aksam on its front page.
“In Sultan Ahmet Mosque, he turned toward Mecca and prayed like Muslims,” popular daily Hurriyet said, using the building’s official name.

today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-12-01T120223Z_01_L28626797_RTRUKOC_0_US-POPE-TURKEY.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

I am trying to understand this from a Catholic perspective-lets discuss

I would guess there’s not much that happened that was not already thought out.

I would like to know if the trip produced any surprises about anything.

 

[Kendy]

fortunately for us the Pope acts according to Christian principles, not in order to appease Muslims or to make a political statement or to control spin or any other secular motivation.

But please, tell me what Christian principles are these? I can’t imagine the apostle paul going to a pagan temple and praying out of respect.

Kendy

 

[zorrox]

There is no blasphemy at all involved who knows, he could perhaps have been thinking of the wonderful dinner the other day, and though: Deo gratias.

 

[Kendy]

While Muslims, Jew and Christians disagree on a lot, they all believe there is one God. In fact, Arab christians of the world call God “Allah”. Scholars in all faiths would not refer to the Christian God because they agree he is one.

They believe there is one God; we believe there is one God in three person; there’s difference.

The Pope was right because he knows there is one God, we say it every week in Mass. The Muslims do not have a false God, they have a false Prophet.

Nohome

 

[Kendy]

Well, don’t get too flapped. Before Vatican II, our altars always faced East. as in Jerusalem. So don’t think Pope Benedict doesn’t know where Jerusalem is. I am quite sure he does. The fact the media think it’s Mecca is no big deal. They don’t know up from down anyway.

Me too, I can’t believe it he has changed his religion, please tell me the Pope is still a Catholic.

Is the Pope Catholic ?

Please, don’t tease me. I am genuinely upset and I am in no mood for jokes.

Kendy

 

[maggieodae]

But please, tell me what Christian principles are these? I can’t imagine the apostle paul going to a pagan temple and praying out of respect.

Kendy

You might want to study Paul a bit more than.

When Paul went to Athens, he was greatly distressed by their idolatry, their sin of unbelief, and the temples that were all over the city. Paul was not happy about their idols, but he finds something about them that he can respect. “Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious, for as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship…(Acts 17:22-23.

In Ephesus, Paul finds himself in the midst of a riot, but again he speaks only with respect, so that there is no charge to be placed against him. The town clerk quiets the riot by telling the crowd that in all his teaching, Paul had not blasphemed their goddess, Diana Acts 19:37. Paul did not go about abusing people or their beliefs. He spoke with respect about people and to people.

This kind of respect is repeatedly commanded by the New Testament. The Apostle Peter says that believers ought to always be ready to make a defense of the hope we have, but to do so with gentleness and respect 1 Peter 3:15, and in Colossians 4:6 Paul says, “Let you conversation be always full of grace.”

btw…the early Christians were upset with Paul also when he taught the Pagans gently.

 

[Kendy]

You might want to study Paul a bit more than.

When Paul went to Athens, he was greatly distressed by their idolatry, their sin of unbelief, and the temples that were all over the city. Paul was not happy about their idols, but he finds something about them that he can respect. “Men of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious, for as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship…(Acts 17:22-23.

In Ephesus, Paul finds himself in the midst of a riot, but again he speaks only with respect, so that there is no charge to be placed against him. The town clerk quiets the riot by telling the crowd that in all his teaching, Paul had not blasphemed their goddess, Diana Acts 19:37. Paul did not go about abusing people or their beliefs. He spoke with respect about people and to people.

This kind of respect is repeatedly commanded by the New Testament. The Apostle Peter says that believers ought to always be ready to make a defense of the hope we have, but to do so with gentleness and respect 1 Peter 3:15, and in Colossians 4:6 Paul says, “Let you conversation be always full of grace.”

When did I suggest that the pope should show disrespect to muslims?

Kendy

 

[maggieodae]

When did I suggest that the pope should show disrespect to muslims?

Kendy

I didn’t think you did…the point is, the Pope is doing much as the Apostle Paul did. You used Paul as an example…and I am pointing out that Paul did nothing more nor less than Benedict.

You seem intent on thinking the Pope must stand up and get slaughtered to be a good Pope.

He and Paul both know/knew you cannot preach to those who do not understand, using rehtoric they will not understand.

 

[Kendy]

You seem intent on thinking the Pope must stand up and get slaughtered to be a good Pope.

Don’t roll your eyes at me when you have no idea what I am intent on thinking. The only thing I am thinking is that there is a difference between being respectful, which is a Godlly thing to do, and appearing to pay homage to another faith. I never suggested that the pope should go to Turkey and insult Muslims. Is it to much to ask that the Pope prays in a church?

Kendy

 

[genotob]

Please, don’t tease me. I am genuinely upset and I am in no mood for jokes.

Kendy

Want to stay in a bad mood? This is a quote from Pope Benedicts’ book “The Sacramental Reason for Christian Existance”. Here he denies the presence of God in the Eucharist: “Eucharist devotion such as is noted in the silent visit by the devout in church must not be thought of as a conversation with God. This is repugnant to the serious thinking of the man who knows about the omnipresence of God. To go to church on the ground that one can visit God Who is present there is a sensless act which the modern man rightfully rejects” The Pope has some explaining to do!

 

[maggieodae]

Don’t roll your eyes at me when you have no idea what I am intent on thinking. The only thing I am thinking is that there is a difference between being respectful, which is a Godlly thing to do, and appearing to pay homage to another faith. I never suggested that the pope should go to Turkey and insult Muslims. Is it to much to ask that the Pope prays in a church?

Kendy

It wasn’t a church. Hasn’t been for hundreds of years. Not a mosque either. It’s a museum.

When a church ceases to be a church, it would have to be re-consecrated to be considered one.

 

[maggieodae]

Want to stay in a bad mood? This is a quote from Pope Benedicts’ book “The Sacramental Reason for Christian Existance”. Here he denies the presence of God in the Eucharist: “Eucharist devotion such as is noted in the silent visit by the devout in church must not be thought of as a conversation with God. This is repugnant to the serious thinking of the man who knows about the omnipresence of God. To go to church on the ground that one can visit God Who is present there is a sensless act which the modern man rightfully rejects” The Pope has some explaining to do!

I’m sure he will get right on that.

 

[Kendy]

Want to stay in a bad mood? This is a quote from Pope Benedicts’ book “The Sacramental Reason for Christian Existance”. Here he denies the presence of God in the Eucharist: “Eucharist devotion such as is noted in the silent visit by the devout in church must not be thought of as a conversation with God. This is repugnant to the serious thinking of the man who knows about the omnipresence of God. To go to church on the ground that one can visit God Who is present there is a sensless act which the modern man rightfully rejects” The Pope has some explaining to do!

Thanks.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Prior to changes in the church our alters were to be placed facing East if at all possible. Then when we turned the alters toward the man in the pews they were then turned West. Funny East or West they still face toward the Holy Land in the end.

So although I don’t face east for my daily prayers (well I guess I do since my family alter is on the east wall of the house) there is nothing wrong with facing the Holy Land to pray to GOD. The Pope just like us is praying in silence to GOD. In situations where it would turn others against Christians to pray out loud, it is sometimes wiser to pray silently and constantly for the conversion of those around us.

 

[genotob]

Please, don’t tease me. I am genuinely upset and I am in no mood for jokes.

Kendy

Want to stay in a bad mood? Here is a quote from Pope Benedicts book"The Sacramental reason for Christian Existence" Here he denies God is present in the Eucharist:
“Eucharistic devotion such as is noted in the silent visit by the devout in church must not be thought of as a conversation with God. This would assume that God was present there locally and in a confined way. To justify such an assertion shows a lack of understanding of the Christological mysteries of the very concept of God. This is repugnant to the serious thinking of the man who knows about the omnipresence of God. To go to church on the ground that one can visit God Who is present there is a senseless act which the modern man rightfully rejects” The Pope has some explaining to do!

 

[genotob]

Don’t roll your eyes at me when you have no idea what I am intent on thinking. The only thing I am thinking is that there is a difference between being respectful, which is a Godlly thing to do, and appearing to pay homage to another faith. I never suggested that the pope should go to Turkey and insult Muslims. Is it to much to ask that the Pope prays in a church?

Kendy

No one especially the Pope should pray in a place of false worship. Here is St Thomas Aquinas and his 2 cents. From his “Summa Theologica”: “if anyone were to worship at the tomb of Mohomet, he would be deemed an apostate”