Pope Hailed for Praying toward Mecca Like Muslims

[LilyM]

I don’t think the Pope was there at a particular prayer time - my understanding is that they were going past a certain part of the mosque and the Mufti said ‘everyone who goes past here stops and prays a little’. So they did.

I have to say I’m honestly shocked at the venom of some of the reaction here. Didn’t St Paul speak about becoming all things to all men in order to win souls? Didn’t he cleverly use the Greeks’ belief in an ‘unnamed God’ to introduce his own faith to them?

How many of us here have even bothered to learn about other faiths, about how to communicate to Muslims, Jews and others in a way that can have a chance of attracting people of other faiths to our own? Instead we whinge and moan, tell them they’re wrong and pagans and that’s that, and resent anyone who makes any actual efforts by way of relating to them.

Didn’t Paul preach in synagogues? ‘To the Jews I became as a Jew’ is what he said people, sounds like he prayed with the non-Christians all right. And I am profoundly convinced that dear faithful St Paul, innocent as a lamb and wise as a serpent, would have acted as Benedict did in the same situation.

 

[palmas85]

I don’t think the Pope was there at a particular prayer time - my understanding is that they were going past a certain part of the mosque and the Mufti said ‘everyone who goes past here stops and prays a little’. So they did.

I have to say I’m honestly shocked at the venom of some of the reaction here. Didn’t St Paul speak about becoming all things to all men in order to win souls? Didn’t he cleverly use the Greeks’ belief in an ‘unnamed God’ to introduce his own faith to them?

How many of us here have even bothered to learn about other faiths, about how to communicate to Muslims, Jews and others in a way that can have a chance of attracting people of other faiths to our own? Instead we whinge and moan, tell them they’re wrong and pagans and that’s that, and resent anyone who makes any actual efforts by way of relating to them.

Didn’t Paul preach in synagogues? ‘To the Jews I became as a Jew’ is what he said people, sounds like he prayed with the non-Christians all right. And I am profoundly convinced that dear faithful St Paul, innocent as a lamb and wise as a serpent, would have acted as Benedict did in the same situation.

If I’m not mistaken Paul as well as Peter, James, Matthew Barnabas, the Blessed Virgin and even Christ Jesus himself were all Jews. For info only, St. Paul was far from innocent as a lamb. Prior to his conversion he was on the way to Damascus, where he planned to continue his relentless persecution of the Jewish Christians and hopefully get a few more killed… Remember he was present and in some way participated in the stoning death of St Stephen although it isn’t known if he actually threw a few himself or merely held the cloaks of those that did. No St Paul was in no way innocent as a lamb at all. The fact that he wasn’t innocent and was in fact a zealot with a great deal of intelligence I feel is probably the main reason Christ hand picked him. Somebody with his talents was very, very valuable.

I both love and respect the Holy Father. But to be blunt I will guarantee you his actions in Turkey did not win a single convert from Islam to the Catholic faith and in fact probably convinced quite a few that he was in fact being submissive to the will of Allah by even being there in the first place…

 

[LilyM]

I of course mangled the scripture passage where Christ exhorts all of us to be innocent as DOVES and wise as serpents … my bad …and whatever he may have been prior to his conversion, Paul certainly followed the words of his master and ours to an extraordinary degree, I am sure in this regard as so many others.

And I still don’t believe he would have caused unnecessary and counterproductive (not to say highly dangerous) offence by refusing at least the bare minimum of civility and tolerance to people of other faiths who extended civility and tolerance to him. I really don’t think Benedict had too many other options at that point in any event.

 

[Nohome]

Since Muslims profess to worship the God of Abraham, I don’t think they would be considered pagans.

Where do you find any indication that the pope prayed to a false god? That is a horrible thing to imply. For shame.

Right on, exactly what I tried to say very early on, but failed to be so sucinct.

Nohome

 

[Eireann]

I am not a vulture. I do not hate the pope. I happen to love him very much. I am just not comfortable with this action. I am certain that he knows better than me, but I am wary of this interfaith stuff.

No vulture here is a generalization, not saying your one, but the Muslims are using it to say, hey look the Pope prayed to mecca.

And other Christians with a bone to chew with the Catholic Church will pounce, and also liberals in our own Church.

I just don’t think all this interfaith prayer is a good idea. I don’t want to pray with people who don’t believe in Jesus, and I am sad that the pope feels differently.

I don’t care for inter-faith stuff myself, especially false ecumenism, but this looks like an ice breaker from the Pope, I’m sure he still went back to Rome a Catholic.

I was asked a number of years ago to stand in for the Baptism of a child in a Protestant Church, Church of Ireland to be precise.
I didn’t kneel, and didn’t pray along with the minister, except when he started the Our Father, but I said it like we say it at Mass.
Anyway I’m still a Catholic, maybe not a very good one in some peoples eyes, but I will be one until the day I die, what comes after, depends on the mercy of God.

 

[Eireann]

What a good analogy!!!

Yes it’s brilliant, definity one for the diary.

 

[Eireann]

BTW…If you see your spouse out with another man/women this evening, I suppose you will all just be able to control your tempers and think pleasant thoughts about how he/she is just showing “respect” to that other person and I’m sure he/she is really thinking of you while showing that affection that is supposed to be directed to you alone.

Are you a theologian ? brilliant !

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Why was he there during their prayer time to begin with? I don’t like praying with non-christian so I avoid situations where I would have to be rude.

**Was this time one of the five times they pray ? I don’t know. If it was - why weren’t they using prayer-mats ? Maybe this time of prayer was unplanned - that’s my impression (FWIW) from some of the reports. **​

I’ve never known Muslims to stand for prayer; to prostrate themselves, yes; but not to stand. I think this was unprepared, & unforeseeable. Therefore, I don’t see that he can be criticised for his conduct in this incident.

---

**As to converting people: Turkey is a secularised country - it’s not zealously Islamic. It’s been that way since Kemal Ataturk began to Westernise it in the 20s; it’s very different from a place like Saudi Arabia. If the Pope has prompted anyone to ask themselves whether he is the horrid ( & anti-Turkish) monster some Muslims may think, he will have dome some good. And that may have good results in the long term. It’s a mistake to think of Turks as absorbed by the details of his visit as we may be - outside Ankara & Istanbul, it may not have made any impression; much of the country is very poor. **

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Honestly, are we Catholics so caught up in ‘the world’s opinions’ that we are tossed about in our faith?

Because some news article, written or heard, ‘proclaims’ that “the Pope does this” or “The Vatican may do this” yadda yadda yadda, does that make it so?

These same ‘pundits’ were the first to snarl and snap about the Pope ‘dissing’ Muslims, and in fact, much of what they said actually was inaccurate. Now, because they see an action they feel is ‘politically correct’, they will praise the Pope–not for the action itself but because they think he’s ‘come around to our way of thinking.’ And what they are saying once again is, in many ways, inaccurate. Oh, the report of the actual action may be correct–but the reasons and thoughts etc. of the Pope will definitely not be accurately reported.

The instant that the Pope says or does something that doesn’t support ‘the world’, he will once again be snarled and snapped at, and once again any word or action will be twisted, derided, etc.

Don’t put your trust in what “the world” says. Put your trust in God. Put your trust in His Vicar on earth to lead us correctly in matters of faith and morals, and know that even if Benedict’s actions were completely and utterly contrary to God’s will (which is in itself highly doubtful) God will use those actions, as He does all actions by all people throughout all time–for** good**.

 

[Damascus]

I agree with Gottle of Geer here that he can not be blamed for the reasons stated in his post and for an additional reason. Holy Father is not slow on the uptake, and is a very brave man. I have no reason to believe that he would cave in to doing something wrong or in error by pressure from anyone under any circumstance. In fact, I think he would be very willing to become a Martyr to defend the faith. He certainly does not need the armchair theologians in the Church second guessing him or making rash judgements against his integritiy when he is IMHO a blessing to the Church. a real Gem with beauty that shines clearly to me anyway. Please pray for him.

 

[corvidae]

You need to read it one more time. Do you believe that going to church to visit God “is a senseless act which modern man rightfully rejects” You must be a “modern” man.

From what I understand, He was speaking about God being lonely, or God being bound only in the Eucharist, and not being everywhere. Yes God is present in the Eucharist in a special way, but God is also everywhere. I think he was talking about putting limits on God rather than saying we should not adore Christ in the Eucharist.

A lone Raven

 

[Elzee]

**Was this time one of the five times they pray ? I don’t know. If it was - why weren’t they using prayer-mats ? Maybe this time of prayer was unplanned - that’s my impression (FWIW) from some of the reports. **​

I’ve never known Muslims to stand for prayer; to prostrate themselves, yes; but not to stand. I think this was unprepared, & unforeseeable. Therefore, I don’t see that he can be criticised for his conduct in this incident.** **

I had the same impression. Anyone have a translation of what was being said right before they prayed?

I actually wondered if Muslims would be offended because the Muslim man giving the tour was standing as opposed to using a mat and prostrating himself (resulting in people saying HE was compromising his practices/posture for the Pope…??). This started my thought process on perhaps this being just an unplanned, impromptu prayer time.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Ok, anyway it don’t matter what the Pope says to some, they will always find something to nit-pick about, like vultures waiting in the wings ready to pounce at the first chance.
He’s in a no win situation, but I read the book and in the end God wins.

Not long ago, the Pope was in a procession that was crossing a bridge. A child, sitting in the bridge railing, fell and was swept away by the raging torrent. The Pope lept out of the Popemobile, jumped into the river and ran across the surface to rescue the child and brought it ashore, walking on the water.

A thread was immediately started in Catholic Answers, complaining that the Pope can’t swim and that makes him look weak to Muslims and Protestants.

 

[maggieodae]

If I’m not mistaken Paul as well as Peter, James, Matthew Barnabas, the Blessed Virgin and even Christ Jesus himself were all Jews. For info only, St. Paul was far from innocent as a lamb. Prior to his conversion he was on the way to Damascus, where he planned to continue his relentless persecution of the Jewish Christians and hopefully get a few more killed… Remember he was present and in some way participated in the stoning death of St Stephen although it isn’t known if he actually threw a few himself or merely held the cloaks of those that did. No St Paul was in no way innocent as a lamb at all. The fact that he wasn’t innocent and was in fact a zealot with a great deal of intelligence I feel is probably the main reason Christ hand picked him. Somebody with his talents was very, very valuable.

I both love and respect the Holy Father. But to be blunt I will guarantee you his actions in Turkey did not win a single convert from Islam to the Catholic faith and in fact probably convinced quite a few that he was in fact being submissive to the will of Allah by even being there in the first place…

Actually St Paul was originally from what is now known as Turkey. I think the Pope is perfectly aware of what he is doing and how to go about it. St Paul had a lot of couch potatoe Christian critic’s as well.

 

[maggieodae]

Not long ago, the Pope was in a procession that was crossing a bridge. A child, sitting in the bridge railing, fell and was swept away by the raging torrent. The Pope lept out of the Popemobile, jumped into the river and ran across the surface to rescue the child and brought it ashore, walking on the water.

A thread was immediately started in Catholic Answers, complaining that the Pope can’t swim and that makes him look weak to Muslims and Protestants.

 

[maggieodae]

From what I understand, He was speaking about God being lonely, or God being bound only in the Eucharist, and not being everywhere. Yes God is present in the Eucharist in a special way, but God is also everywhere. I think he was talking about putting limits on God rather than saying we should not adore Christ in the Eucharist.

A lone Raven

You got it.

 

[Eireann]

Not long ago, the Pope was in a procession that was crossing a bridge. A child, sitting in the bridge railing, fell and was swept away by the raging torrent. The Pope lept out of the Popemobile, jumped into the river and ran across the surface to rescue the child and brought it ashore, walking on the water.

A thread was immediately started in Catholic Answers, complaining that the Pope can’t swim and that makes him look weak to Muslims and Protestants.

Exactly, it don’t take much.

 

[tequilamac]

Not long ago, the Pope was in a procession that was crossing a bridge. A child, sitting in the bridge railing, fell and was swept away by the raging torrent. The Pope lept out of the Popemobile, jumped into the river and ran across the surface to rescue the child and brought it ashore, walking on the water.

A thread was immediately started in Catholic Answers, complaining that the Pope can’t swim and that makes him look weak to Muslims and Protestants.

Is that a true story Vern? I had not heard that one.

 

[palmas85]

Actually St Paul was originally from what is now known as Turkey. I think the Pope is perfectly aware of what he is doing and how to go about it. St Paul had a lot of couch potatoe Christian critic’s as well.

Yes but he was stil a Jew, not a gentile.

 

[maggieodae]

Yes but he was stil a Jew, not a gentile.

What has that got to do with the fact the early Christians were complainers against Paul? Other than the fact Pope B16 and Paul both couldn’t please everyone.